"I owe my whole stinkin life, fortune and sacred honor to throw myself into that septic tank"..
The sad part of it, it is STILL a relevant discussion. People STILL believe this nonsense.
I think that's what gave me such a sick feeling after looking at the "wonderful for da vey" website, reading the kids posts about being so "thankful" or "blessed".
They have been taught to believe this junk.
They are just taking it to the next generation, I guess..
Even some who are out, and that for a LONG time, STILL think they have some kind of debt to pay. Sad..
Aright, fine. You want quotes? ;)--> Here's a few for you:
quote:
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Matt 5:13
quote:
Salt [is] good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.
Mark 9:50
quote:
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
Galations 6:10
quote:
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you.
Hebrews 13:17
You have to keep salted on the word and the only way to do that is with the only group who truly stands on God's word and rightly divides it. You leave the household and you're no better than dirt to be trodden on. Stay salted stay at peace with one another in the household. We need each other to keep us sharp on the word. "Iron sharpeneth iron" remember?
God obviously esteems the household over everyone else, it's right there in black & white. We stand in the gap for you. We watch over you and help you and teach you the word, therefore you should obey us and our stupid rules and do everything within your means to keep us fat & happy.
I was never able to discredit these arguments in my house.
for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief
Yep.. but why was it never (or RARELY) done with joy, but GRIEF? If somebody can call several consecutive two hour screaming sessions about only God knows what joy, I have a problem with that.
If we were supposedly that screwed up, it would have been more humane to just line us up, shoot us or something..
Interesting. The last "leadership" here was GRIEVED to even think of doing something good for "the household". Tried to squash the remaining little bit of joy and peace that managed to survive. Tried to get everything they could from the area before their joyfully anticipated departure.
They were not in to watch for our souls- just their own backsides.
No more joy. As "thankful" as they are, this is obviously and sadly lacking.
"the only way to do that is with the only group who truly stands on God's word and rightly divides it"
Yep. Notice the lack of options- they are the ONLY group that TRULY stands and rightly divides it. I believed that once..
Gads.
"Current innies say there is nothing better out there"
They are STILL saying this. "There's nothing better, but its better, you outghta think about coming back..." almost as if you owe them to return.
We stand in the gap for you. We watch over you and help you and teach you the word, therefore you should obey us and our stupid rules and do everything within your means to keep us fat & happy.
Yep- amazing what they try to do with scripture. If they REALLY stood in the gap, that might be one thing..
Stand in the gap, ha. My experience, especially in later years, they were experts in jumping out of the way- leaving you on your own.
"We cannot think for ourselves. Instead, you will be subjected to mashed us and refried present untruth junk not fit for the stomach of a rat. But you WILL consume it, obey it, live it, you and your little dog too".
"And you'll keep a smile on your face while you do it".
My God, the best and newest info the old limb guy could come up here was, yet once again, how to eat three times a day without mixing breads and vegetables. And that we should brush our teeth to avoid cavities. This was the finest stuff I heard come out of his mouth.
Unbelievable- I actually believed I owed my life to these morons at one time.
Really stinks when you have to stoop to the level of duping your own kids to run a class. "Here, you can be 'blessed' just like mom and dad (said with a glazed empty look in the eyes).."
Probably have the poor suckers earn the money for the class by cleaning the branch guys yard, cleaning out his pool, and digging out his antiquated septic system..
With a smile!
I have seen stuff like that..
I did that with my own daughter about 10 years ago. She used her babysitting money.
I've realized by reading other versions (you mean there actually are Bible out there that are NOT King James!! ) That a lot of the "literals" are out of the Amplified Bible. Is that why they didn't want us to use any other one. So that we would know they weren't doing all this "research" to make the TWI Bible like they were talking about?
OK, I've been bad and disappeared from my thread for awhile. Even after asking for Bible verses and Belle so kindly providing some.
I'll be sure to get to it today, but I wanted to mention a couple things.
Excathedra, loved your response and quite simply makes the absolute most sense in only one sentence. :)-->
Moony, I think Vee Pee started with the amplified to make his "literals according to usage" but he changed them to give his meaning to a verse, not what it actually said.
The only excuse I ever heard in TWI for using the KJV was that all the research books were based on it -- which is not true. The fact that they still insist on using it shows they are not a research group, but only another religion worshiping some text. The "thee" and "thou's" makes it sound much better when referring to God. But then you end up with their ignorance of Old English creeping into their doctrine (having two definitions for throughly and thoroughly, having God "replenish" the earth, etc).
About a month after returning home from Advanced Class '79, I received a letter that went out to all recent 'grads'.
I wish I could quote it word for word, but it was basically the 1979 version of the loyalty oath. It said that as an advanced class grad, we must realize that the way ministry owes us nothing, but that we owe the way ministry our lives, followed by the usual committment reinforcement.
That daily 'committment' reinforcement was amazing looking back on it. Everything was committment. You were nothing if not fully committed. Where's your committment? Only the commmitted receive God's blessings. We were judged by the perception of the level of our committment.
Chat Room www.gscafe.com www.gscafe.com About The Way I owe my life to the ministry.
This is talking about commitment, not specifically to TWI or any other group, but commitment in general. If what KC Pillai taught is correct, when the salt covenant was taken, it was taken between TWO people. They were BOTH making a commitment to each other.
A) The only salt commitments I saw in TWI were in marriage ceremonies (my ex broke hers), ordination, and the latter numbered corpse. Unless you were ordained or part of the latter corpse, you never took a salt commitment with TWI (eating in the meal tent doesn’t count). The marriage salt covenant was between the husband and wife and excluded TWI (contrary to what my ex claims). If it included TWI, then the one performing the ceremony for TWI should have been licking the salt.
B) The commitment is a TWO WAY STREET. TWI loves to continually remind it’s TWIts about commitment to their household, but what is their commitment to it? To live off it the rest of their lives? Whatever they claim their commitment is, it was thoroughly broken when Vee Pee and Craig were so blatantly hiding some weird, screwed up belief that all the women in the kingdom/household belonged to them. When they started abusing women behind closed doors, marking and avoiding those trying to expose it, they thoroughly violated any “salt covenant” between them and the lowely TWIts (if one even existed). Therefore, no one could ever be held responsible for it any longer. You’re free to leave. In fact, staying with it would be more of a slap in God’s face.
In regards to “do good unto all:”
This just a good policy to have. It would make you think twice if it said the opposite. Being good to someone is quite different from owing your life to them.
In regards to “Obey them that have the rule over you:”
Whoever gave TWI rule over anyone? Did God decree it? Did Jesus throw his mantle on them? Anyone can teach the Bible and give their interpretation of it. Just because you buy into it doesn’t mean they own you for the rest of your life.
Think folks! Life is a gift (from God if you choose to believe so). Why the hell should it EVER be given to someone else?
We could really have fun with this verse if you want to go into the origins of the book of Hebrews. Contrary to what TWI believes, it was not written by Paul.
An interesting note also. There is a writing, I forget where I read it, I can find it if you want, that basically was a complaint from the Corinthians. This was after Paul was dead and someone had sent some “leader” to them to be in charge. Their complaint was why did they need a leader? They had never had one before so why did they need one now?
It said that as an advanced class grad, we must realize that the way ministry owes us nothing, but that we owe the way ministry our lives, followed by the usual committment reinforcement.
That daily 'committment' reinforcement was amazing looking back on it. Everything was committment. You were nothing if not fully committed. Where's your committment? Only the commmitted receive God's blessings. We were judged by the perception of the level of our committment.
So true. So true. This is basically what they are teaching again and they are getting more bold and blunt about it. No one wants to feel like a failure and we all want to be "the best" so telling people that they are inferior if they aren't fully committed to TWI and scaring them with spiritual "consequences" if they break a commitment to TWI that they never made in the first place is just plain spiritual blackmail!
Bob, my vows and salt covenant had no mention of TWI either. Funny how some seem to think part of the vows included "as long as we both drink the kool-aid"...
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Ham
"I owe my whole stinkin life, fortune and sacred honor to throw myself into that septic tank"..
The sad part of it, it is STILL a relevant discussion. People STILL believe this nonsense.
I think that's what gave me such a sick feeling after looking at the "wonderful for da vey" website, reading the kids posts about being so "thankful" or "blessed".
They have been taught to believe this junk.
They are just taking it to the next generation, I guess..
Even some who are out, and that for a LONG time, STILL think they have some kind of debt to pay. Sad..
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Belle
Aright, fine. You want quotes?
;)--> Here's a few for you:
Matt 5:13 Mark 9:50 Galations 6:10 Hebrews 13:17You have to keep salted on the word and the only way to do that is with the only group who truly stands on God's word and rightly divides it. You leave the household and you're no better than dirt to be trodden on. Stay salted stay at peace with one another in the household. We need each other to keep us sharp on the word. "Iron sharpeneth iron" remember?
God obviously esteems the household over everyone else, it's right there in black & white. We stand in the gap for you. We watch over you and help you and teach you the word, therefore you should obey us and our stupid rules and do everything within your means to keep us fat & happy.
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Ham
Yep.. but why was it never (or RARELY) done with joy, but GRIEF? If somebody can call several consecutive two hour screaming sessions about only God knows what joy, I have a problem with that.
If we were supposedly that screwed up, it would have been more humane to just line us up, shoot us or something..
Interesting. The last "leadership" here was GRIEVED to even think of doing something good for "the household". Tried to squash the remaining little bit of joy and peace that managed to survive. Tried to get everything they could from the area before their joyfully anticipated departure.
They were not in to watch for our souls- just their own backsides.
No more joy. As "thankful" as they are, this is obviously and sadly lacking.
"the only way to do that is with the only group who truly stands on God's word and rightly divides it"
Yep. Notice the lack of options- they are the ONLY group that TRULY stands and rightly divides it. I believed that once..
Gads.
"Current innies say there is nothing better out there"
They are STILL saying this. "There's nothing better, but its better, you outghta think about coming back..." almost as if you owe them to return.
Good grief.
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Ham
Yep- amazing what they try to do with scripture. If they REALLY stood in the gap, that might be one thing..
Stand in the gap, ha. My experience, especially in later years, they were experts in jumping out of the way- leaving you on your own.
Cowards and traitors would be kind words.
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Ham
Ha ha ha ha ha ha..
"Literal translation according to usage"
"We cannot think for ourselves. Instead, you will be subjected to mashed us and refried present untruth junk not fit for the stomach of a rat. But you WILL consume it, obey it, live it, you and your little dog too".
"And you'll keep a smile on your face while you do it".
My God, the best and newest info the old limb guy could come up here was, yet once again, how to eat three times a day without mixing breads and vegetables. And that we should brush our teeth to avoid cavities. This was the finest stuff I heard come out of his mouth.
Unbelievable- I actually believed I owed my life to these morons at one time.
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excathedra
quite honestly i am tired of owing my life to anyone including God and Jesus Christ. None of this was my idea to begin with.
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CM
exc your wisdom is quite illuminating
owing your life to any thing kills freedom
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moony3424
I did that with my own daughter about 10 years ago. She used her babysitting money.
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moony3424
I've realized by reading other versions (you mean there actually are Bible out there that are NOT King James!!
) That a lot of the "literals" are out of the Amplified Bible. Is that why they didn't want us to use any other one. So that we would know they weren't doing all this "research" to make the TWI Bible like they were talking about?
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Bob
OK, I've been bad and disappeared from my thread for awhile. Even after asking for Bible verses and Belle so kindly providing some.
I'll be sure to get to it today, but I wanted to mention a couple things.
Excathedra, loved your response and quite simply makes the absolute most sense in only one sentence.
:)-->
Moony, I think Vee Pee started with the amplified to make his "literals according to usage" but he changed them to give his meaning to a verse, not what it actually said.
The only excuse I ever heard in TWI for using the KJV was that all the research books were based on it -- which is not true. The fact that they still insist on using it shows they are not a research group, but only another religion worshiping some text. The "thee" and "thou's" makes it sound much better when referring to God. But then you end up with their ignorance of Old English creeping into their doctrine (having two definitions for throughly and thoroughly, having God "replenish" the earth, etc).
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hiway29
About a month after returning home from Advanced Class '79, I received a letter that went out to all recent 'grads'.
I wish I could quote it word for word, but it was basically the 1979 version of the loyalty oath. It said that as an advanced class grad, we must realize that the way ministry owes us nothing, but that we owe the way ministry our lives, followed by the usual committment reinforcement.
That daily 'committment' reinforcement was amazing looking back on it. Everything was committment. You were nothing if not fully committed. Where's your committment? Only the commmitted receive God's blessings. We were judged by the perception of the level of our committment.
Chat Room www.gscafe.com www.gscafe.com About The Way I owe my life to the ministry.
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Bob
OK, now for the Bible verses.
In regards to salt and loosing it:
This is talking about commitment, not specifically to TWI or any other group, but commitment in general. If what KC Pillai taught is correct, when the salt covenant was taken, it was taken between TWO people. They were BOTH making a commitment to each other.
A) The only salt commitments I saw in TWI were in marriage ceremonies (my ex broke hers), ordination, and the latter numbered corpse. Unless you were ordained or part of the latter corpse, you never took a salt commitment with TWI (eating in the meal tent doesn’t count). The marriage salt covenant was between the husband and wife and excluded TWI (contrary to what my ex claims). If it included TWI, then the one performing the ceremony for TWI should have been licking the salt.
B) The commitment is a TWO WAY STREET. TWI loves to continually remind it’s TWIts about commitment to their household, but what is their commitment to it? To live off it the rest of their lives? Whatever they claim their commitment is, it was thoroughly broken when Vee Pee and Craig were so blatantly hiding some weird, screwed up belief that all the women in the kingdom/household belonged to them. When they started abusing women behind closed doors, marking and avoiding those trying to expose it, they thoroughly violated any “salt covenant” between them and the lowely TWIts (if one even existed). Therefore, no one could ever be held responsible for it any longer. You’re free to leave. In fact, staying with it would be more of a slap in God’s face.
In regards to “do good unto all:”
This just a good policy to have. It would make you think twice if it said the opposite. Being good to someone is quite different from owing your life to them.
In regards to “Obey them that have the rule over you:”
Whoever gave TWI rule over anyone? Did God decree it? Did Jesus throw his mantle on them? Anyone can teach the Bible and give their interpretation of it. Just because you buy into it doesn’t mean they own you for the rest of your life.
Think folks! Life is a gift (from God if you choose to believe so). Why the hell should it EVER be given to someone else?
We could really have fun with this verse if you want to go into the origins of the book of Hebrews. Contrary to what TWI believes, it was not written by Paul.
An interesting note also. There is a writing, I forget where I read it, I can find it if you want, that basically was a complaint from the Corinthians. This was after Paul was dead and someone had sent some “leader” to them to be in charge. Their complaint was why did they need a leader? They had never had one before so why did they need one now?
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Belle
So true. So true. This is basically what they are teaching again and they are getting more bold and blunt about it. No one wants to feel like a failure and we all want to be "the best" so telling people that they are inferior if they aren't fully committed to TWI and scaring them with spiritual "consequences" if they break a commitment to TWI that they never made in the first place is just plain spiritual blackmail!
Bob, my vows and salt covenant had no mention of TWI either. Funny how some seem to think part of the vows included "as long as we both drink the kool-aid"...
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