For me, it's always been about THE SCRIPTURES. Maybe it was my upbringing.....but for the longest time, I did not even write in my Bible, because of my respect for these divine words.
Even after pfal......it wasn't ABOUT pfal. It was about THE SCRIPTURES. Of course, the pfal class keynoted certain truths like "no prophesy of the scriptures is of any private interpretation"........ so to me, it only ELEVATED THE SCRIPTURES. It didn't elevate wierwille who was only a messenger.
And, even though twi brushed over the gospels......I loved reading those accounts where Jesus Christ confronted religious leaders....Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God. Yeah, even Jesus OPENED the scrolls and READ divine writings. He wasn't tweaking things as he stood before the multitudes.
Or that verse in Acts where Apollos was an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures. Could it be written any clearer???
Even to this day, it sounds like twi is fixated on "prevailing word" terminology. In some ways, I guess it is quite understandable.......its rooted in martindale's book [Acts 19:20], the 7th great statement, and if challenged, twi can always say that they hold "inner truth and spiritual insight" that others simply do not see.
Yes, the "prevailing word" is tweaked to perfection. :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D-->
In pfal..........."The greatest secret in the world today is the Bible is the revealed Word and will of God."
In todays twi.....The current followers of twi have access to websites and subscriptions that sustain their prominance in the land of the prevailing word.
Wow, a tweak a week .........leads to years of fears!!!
Well stated, Skyrider. I agree. Things sure changed over the years.... for the worse. And when we confronted our local leadership (you know who :D-->) with indisputible facts (from the bible) about debt teachings and mark and avoid it just came down to .... "Well, it's the present truth"
Sounds like the Pope to me. Or "Popette" or "Popetress" :D-->
OMG, John, you just reminded me of a statement from our illustrious rc about debt. I think I still have it. It would be a choo choo on this thread, but I'll still look for it.
Sky, it does appear that TWI went from scripture based teaching and encouraging people to actually research and apply the keys they learned to TWIt publications and the latest whim/present truth of the leadership.
No one is really re-searching the scriptures and there's really no reason to. If someone were to find something wrong (gasp!) it would just cause them problems, not any TWIt.
They have ressurected ....."Stand with the ministry that taught you the Word." and added to it "We're building something big for our children and our children's children". No emphasis on the scriptures at all but rather on TWI and "we" the only one true household of God.
Year after year, the tweaking has helped to bridge the gap....from "study the scriptures" to their intended business-agenda of "stand with the ministry." Some growth, more staff and the cycle of bureacratic governing sets in. I mean, c'mon.......with a staff of 300+ (or whatever) in Ohio, even the operation of such machinery would dictate a corporate structure.
Looking back......I seriously doubt that twigs were ever intended to be "self-governing" and all that! Nice labels and all......but it was NOT meant to be. Hidden agendas were behind the programs.....tweaking is behind the evolution of conformity.
Religious pontificating becomes the order of the day.
Sky, it does appear that TWI went from scripture based teaching and encouraging people to actually research and apply the keys they learned to TWIt publications and the latest whim/present truth of the leadership.
Belle......yeah, scriptures quickly followed by wierwillian agendas, eh?
Years ago......I read a nice article about Outstanding Leaders and Men (something like that). Anyways, one of the major points throughout this article was that quality and impact of this man's work should stand the test of time.....years after his death!!!! In other words, the influence and impact of this man's life would have monumental and positive influence in following generations.
From what I've seen and heard.......scores of people were leaving wierwille and his agendas by the early 70's. The devastation and destruction in his wake is appalling.......and much of this before his death in 1985. Great leader? Wierwille's "ministry" a pathetic legacy.
And, every businessman knows........there's nothing like REPEAT business!
In his fifties, vpw knew this little business tip from his brother. It's little wonder that vpw NEVER said....It's the Scriptures, the Scriptures and nothing but the Scriptures. ;)-->
Might lead to independent study? Absolutely. :)-->
1980s....."The Word is the javelin of the Spirit."
Yea -- right. --> If they (twi) had any integrity at all, they would stop all this analogy crap, and stick to what the Word says.
Twi totally ruined Ephesians 6, when that line of BULL was propounded about "Jocks of the Spirit". If they were interested in promoting a *ministry* and teaching God's Word, instead of a *broadway show*, and someone's demented "take" on "what it really meant" -- they would of canned that teaching so fast, it would even have made the Jolly Green Giant jealous.
If they want to be accurate, they would stick with the *sword of the spirit*, and forget the athletic thing. You throw a javelin, and lose control once it has left your hand. When using a sword -- one can inflict intended damage on the *target*, repeatedly -- since you retain control of the weapon.
I've said it here before, and I'll say it again:
THE -- ADVERSARY -- DID -- NOT -- COME -- TO -- COMPETE!!
He came to Steal, Kill, and Destroy (John 10:10)
WGB, BOT, BOD -- and all that are still "in" -- your's is a sinking ship (on the sea of life), as you continue with all this ludicrous verbal posturing, that's forcing others to believe it as (cough!) doctine. -->
I left you all 20 years ago because you (then as now) can't get it right, and still insist on promoting Private Interpretation over truth.
Everything thats said seems to be what the TWI taught in time past. Where are they today on this stuff? with the diminishing numbers in the ranks have they changed thier tunes? Have any of them come to thier senses?
IS there still the exodus of people happening like that which occured a few years ago. I read alot of old history but what is happening currently?
Myself, I don't think they can come up with anything original, at least any more. They fired all of the brains, and hold on to second rate martindalian concepts and phrases, for lack of anything else. Even the old materials get "baptized" as "new improved prevailing editions" or some such nonsense. And the flock runs to buy this crap.. or HAS to.
Seems like the new catch phrase is pretty simple- just mix in "prevailing" and "household" and a little more nonsense, sprinkle it on horse manure, and magically it's no longer horse manure, it's PREVAILING HOUSEHOLD "that which causes growth". You wanna grow, don't ya?
Seems they are stuck with this stuff, decade after decade. Prevailing this, prevailing that.. but it has worked "wonders". I don't think the flock has any idea of what "prevailing" even means anymore.
Maybe they could just have another class about "prevailing".
I think they have them conditioned to these little phrases. Just say "prevailing.. household.. blessed..etc.." and they start salivating like Pavlov's dog. Whatever item or class that it happens to "grace", they've just gotta have it. Cripe, most probably don't really know what it is to prevail anymore. It's really sick.
Everything thats said seems to be what the TWI taught in time past. Where are they today on this stuff? with the diminishing numbers in the ranks have they changed thier tunes? Have any of them come to thier senses?
IS there still the exodus of people happening like that which occured a few years ago. I read alot of old history but what is happening currently?
Out There,
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "currently".......but yes, MANY have exited twi in the past 6 years or so. With more prevailing LEGALISM in twi, the numbers of those exiting have escalated accordingly.
Just briefly........8-10 Region couples have exited in the past eight years or thereabouts. Two of these couples, the Panarxllxs and the Lxllys were in the Trunk Offices.
Of course, the 1998 Advanced Class in Indiana was a turning point for MANY. A poster and former corps guy named Bennett gave the details of martindale's sexual assault on a married corps woman in the Indiana campus auditorium balcony............anyways, it led to a sizeable exodus!
More lawsuits......more exiting. This stuff is still fairly current. And even though martindale was ousted in September of 2000 by twi's lawyers.....the mess continues.
If they want to be accurate, they would stick with the *sword of the spirit*, and forget the athletic thing. You throw a javelin, and lose control once it has left your hand. When using a sword -- one can inflict intended damage on the *target*, repeatedly -- since you retain control of the weapon.
I've said it here before, and I'll say it again:
THE -- ADVERSARY -- DID -- NOT -- COME -- TO -- COMPETE!!
He came to Steal, Kill, and Destroy (John 10:10)
WGB, BOT, BOD -- and all that are still "in" -- your's is a sinking ship (on the sea of life), as you continue with all this ludicrous verbal posturing, that's forcing others to believe it as (cough!) doctine.
dmiller, I'm glad you said it again because I either didn't read it before or it never clicked like it did today. The devil isn't playing games with us, so why would we be outfitted for a game and not battle?
If'n you don't mind, I'd like to add this to the GSpot Gems thread. ;)-->
Out there, I have been out less than a year. Does that count as current?
They're still teaching from the collaterals. They still maintain that debt is wrong and attach a negative stigmatism to people who are in debt. They still have corps leaving because of the stringent legalism. They haven't changed much at all; they've just learned to smile and speak "suthern" when they kick you in the teeth.
A quick visit to their website sickening website will show you that nothing has changed. All you have to do is read the articles posted. Every last one of them is about service and obedience to the household (NOT TO GOD), giving more and more (TO THEM, NOT TO GOD) and witnessing (FOR THEM, NOT FOR GOD).....same agenda they've had for decades.
If'n you don't mind, I'd like to add this to the GSpot Gems thread. ;)-->
Awwww -- shucks!! It's the truth, you know. :)-->
quote:
A quick visit to their website sickening website will show you that nothing has changed. All you have to do is read the articles posted. Every last one of them is about service and obedience to the household (NOT TO GOD), giving more and more (TO THEM, NOT TO GOD) and witnessing (FOR THEM, NOT FOR GOD).....same agenda they've had for decades.
Belle -- interesting, but what I figured. :(--> Now that I think about it, they have always magnified the household over God, and fidelity to the ministry more than anything else.
Back in the 70's, an excuse was given that it was actually God you were honoring by being *especially kind to the household of faith* (that in itself is a true statement), but it didn't take long to warp it out of it's original meaning to serve their purposes.
Ironically enough -- it was the "tweaking speaking" that got me interested in the outfit in the first place. Guess it all had that *catch-phrase* appeal, designed to "sell the product and hook the customer".
And after 10 or 11 years, it was the "tweaking speaking" that finally caused me to really see what they were doing to the both the Word, and the english language.
(A quick ps. about this) --- The first time I really got *ticked* at them for word-substitution was when there was a bluegrass group in twi -- and for the life of me, I can not remember their original name (maybe someone here remembers) --- but they were *dubbed* as playing TrueGrass, since BlueGrass gave a negative connotation. -->
*Blue* had to be replaced by *True*, and though I forgave them for the serious indiscretion -- the seeds of doubt were sown.
Wonder what they might have said, had B.B.King taken the class, and he was asked to perform at the ROA??? Wonder what they may have labeled that music, eh?? -->
I can just hear it now:
quote:
(the "host on stage speaking) speaking --
Annnnndddd Nowwwwww!!!! For your listening pleasure, and spiritual enrichment, Please give a BIGGGG WAYYYY WELLLCOME to B.B. KINGGGGGGGGG!!!
(oh -- just a ps here -- B.B King would have HAD to stood for Bible believing King!!)
Way-speak is after all, way-speak -- and everthing becomes subject to change. -->
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skyrider
For me, it's always been about THE SCRIPTURES. Maybe it was my upbringing.....but for the longest time, I did not even write in my Bible, because of my respect for these divine words.
Even after pfal......it wasn't ABOUT pfal. It was about THE SCRIPTURES. Of course, the pfal class keynoted certain truths like "no prophesy of the scriptures is of any private interpretation"........ so to me, it only ELEVATED THE SCRIPTURES. It didn't elevate wierwille who was only a messenger.
And, even though twi brushed over the gospels......I loved reading those accounts where Jesus Christ confronted religious leaders....Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God. Yeah, even Jesus OPENED the scrolls and READ divine writings. He wasn't tweaking things as he stood before the multitudes.
Or that verse in Acts where Apollos was an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures. Could it be written any clearer???
Even to this day, it sounds like twi is fixated on "prevailing word" terminology. In some ways, I guess it is quite understandable.......its rooted in martindale's book [Acts 19:20], the 7th great statement, and if challenged, twi can always say that they hold "inner truth and spiritual insight" that others simply do not see.
Yes, the "prevailing word" is tweaked to perfection.
:D--> 
:D--> 
:D--> 
:D--> 
:D-->
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skyrider
As mentioned on another thread....
In pfal..........."The greatest secret in the world today is the Bible is the revealed Word and will of God."
In todays twi.....The current followers of twi have access to websites and subscriptions that sustain their prominance in the land of the prevailing word.
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igotout
Well stated, Skyrider. I agree. Things sure changed over the years.... for the worse. And when we confronted our local leadership (you know who
:D-->) with indisputible facts (from the bible) about debt teachings and mark and avoid it just came down to .... "Well, it's the present truth"
Sounds like the Pope to me. Or "Popette" or "Popetress"
:D-->
More later...busy at work.....
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Belle
OMG, John, you just reminded me of a statement from our illustrious rc about debt. I think I still have it. It would be a choo choo on this thread, but I'll still look for it.
Sky, it does appear that TWI went from scripture based teaching and encouraging people to actually research and apply the keys they learned to TWIt publications and the latest whim/present truth of the leadership.
No one is really re-searching the scriptures and there's really no reason to. If someone were to find something wrong (gasp!) it would just cause them problems, not any TWIt.
They have ressurected ....."Stand with the ministry that taught you the Word." and added to it "We're building something big for our children and our children's children". No emphasis on the scriptures at all but rather on TWI and "we" the only one true household of God.
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skyrider
Today, pure and simple.......twi is a BUSINESS.
Year after year, the tweaking has helped to bridge the gap....from "study the scriptures" to their intended business-agenda of "stand with the ministry." Some growth, more staff and the cycle of bureacratic governing sets in. I mean, c'mon.......with a staff of 300+ (or whatever) in Ohio, even the operation of such machinery would dictate a corporate structure.
Looking back......I seriously doubt that twigs were ever intended to be "self-governing" and all that! Nice labels and all......but it was NOT meant to be. Hidden agendas were behind the programs.....tweaking is behind the evolution of conformity.
Religious pontificating becomes the order of the day.
Tweak the weak.
:P-->
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skyrider
Belle......yeah, scriptures quickly followed by wierwillian agendas, eh?
Years ago......I read a nice article about Outstanding Leaders and Men (something like that). Anyways, one of the major points throughout this article was that quality and impact of this man's work should stand the test of time.....years after his death!!!! In other words, the influence and impact of this man's life would have monumental and positive influence in following generations.
From what I've seen and heard.......scores of people were leaving wierwille and his agendas by the early 70's. The devastation and destruction in his wake is appalling.......and much of this before his death in 1985. Great leader? Wierwille's "ministry" a pathetic legacy.
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skyrider
And, every businessman knows........there's nothing like REPEAT business!
In his fifties, vpw knew this little business tip from his brother. It's little wonder that vpw NEVER said....It's the Scriptures, the Scriptures and nothing but the Scriptures.
;)-->
Might lead to independent study? Absolutely.
:)-->
And less REPEAT consumers.
:D-->
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dmiller
Yea -- right.
--> If they (twi) had any integrity at all, they would stop all this analogy crap, and stick to what the Word says.
Twi totally ruined Ephesians 6, when that line of BULL was propounded about "Jocks of the Spirit". If they were interested in promoting a *ministry* and teaching God's Word, instead of a *broadway show*, and someone's demented "take" on "what it really meant" -- they would of canned that teaching so fast, it would even have made the Jolly Green Giant jealous.
If they want to be accurate, they would stick with the *sword of the spirit*, and forget the athletic thing. You throw a javelin, and lose control once it has left your hand. When using a sword -- one can inflict intended damage on the *target*, repeatedly -- since you retain control of the weapon.
I've said it here before, and I'll say it again:
THE -- ADVERSARY -- DID -- NOT -- COME -- TO -- COMPETE!!
He came to Steal, Kill, and Destroy (John 10:10)
WGB, BOT, BOD -- and all that are still "in" -- your's is a sinking ship (on the sea of life), as you continue with all this ludicrous verbal posturing, that's forcing others to believe it as (cough!) doctine.
-->
I left you all 20 years ago because you (then as now) can't get it right, and still insist on promoting Private Interpretation over truth.
*Tweak* all y'all want.
SINCERITY IS NO GUARENTEE FOR TRUTH
.
.
.
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Out There
Everything thats said seems to be what the TWI taught in time past. Where are they today on this stuff? with the diminishing numbers in the ranks have they changed thier tunes? Have any of them come to thier senses?
IS there still the exodus of people happening like that which occured a few years ago. I read alot of old history but what is happening currently?
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Ham
Myself, I don't think they can come up with anything original, at least any more. They fired all of the brains, and hold on to second rate martindalian concepts and phrases, for lack of anything else. Even the old materials get "baptized" as "new improved prevailing editions" or some such nonsense. And the flock runs to buy this crap.. or HAS to.
Seems like the new catch phrase is pretty simple- just mix in "prevailing" and "household" and a little more nonsense, sprinkle it on horse manure, and magically it's no longer horse manure, it's PREVAILING HOUSEHOLD "that which causes growth". You wanna grow, don't ya?
Seems they are stuck with this stuff, decade after decade. Prevailing this, prevailing that.. but it has worked "wonders". I don't think the flock has any idea of what "prevailing" even means anymore.
Maybe they could just have another class about "prevailing".
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Ham
I think they have them conditioned to these little phrases. Just say "prevailing.. household.. blessed..etc.." and they start salivating like Pavlov's dog. Whatever item or class that it happens to "grace", they've just gotta have it. Cripe, most probably don't really know what it is to prevail anymore. It's really sick.
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skyrider
Out There,
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "currently".......but yes, MANY have exited twi in the past 6 years or so. With more prevailing LEGALISM in twi, the numbers of those exiting have escalated accordingly.
Just briefly........8-10 Region couples have exited in the past eight years or thereabouts. Two of these couples, the Panarxllxs and the Lxllys were in the Trunk Offices.
Of course, the 1998 Advanced Class in Indiana was a turning point for MANY. A poster and former corps guy named Bennett gave the details of martindale's sexual assault on a married corps woman in the Indiana campus auditorium balcony............anyways, it led to a sizeable exodus!
More lawsuits......more exiting. This stuff is still fairly current. And even though martindale was ousted in September of 2000 by twi's lawyers.....the mess continues.
Hope this info answers your questions.
:)-->
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Belle
dmiller, I'm glad you said it again because I either didn't read it before or it never clicked like it did today. The devil isn't playing games with us, so why would we be outfitted for a game and not battle?
If'n you don't mind, I'd like to add this to the GSpot Gems thread.
;)-->
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Belle
Out there, I have been out less than a year. Does that count as current?
They're still teaching from the collaterals. They still maintain that debt is wrong and attach a negative stigmatism to people who are in debt. They still have corps leaving because of the stringent legalism. They haven't changed much at all; they've just learned to smile and speak "suthern" when they kick you in the teeth.
A quick visit to their website sickening website will show you that nothing has changed. All you have to do is read the articles posted. Every last one of them is about service and obedience to the household (NOT TO GOD), giving more and more (TO THEM, NOT TO GOD) and witnessing (FOR THEM, NOT FOR GOD).....same agenda they've had for decades.
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dmiller
Awwww -- shucks!! It's the truth, you know.
:)-->
Belle -- interesting, but what I figured.
:(--> Now that I think about it, they have always magnified the household over God, and fidelity to the ministry more than anything else.
Back in the 70's, an excuse was given that it was actually God you were honoring by being *especially kind to the household of faith* (that in itself is a true statement), but it didn't take long to warp it out of it's original meaning to serve their purposes.
Ironically enough -- it was the "tweaking speaking" that got me interested in the outfit in the first place. Guess it all had that *catch-phrase* appeal, designed to "sell the product and hook the customer".
And after 10 or 11 years, it was the "tweaking speaking" that finally caused me to really see what they were doing to the both the Word, and the english language.
(A quick ps. about this) --- The first time I really got *ticked* at them for word-substitution was when there was a bluegrass group in twi -- and for the life of me, I can not remember their original name (maybe someone here remembers) --- but they were *dubbed* as playing TrueGrass, since BlueGrass gave a negative connotation.
-->
*Blue* had to be replaced by *True*, and though I forgave them for the serious indiscretion -- the seeds of doubt were sown.
"BLUEGRASS IS THE VITAL FORCE OF LIFE"
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Oakspear
They substituted TRUEgrass for BLUEgrass because it had a negative connotation?
-->
Apparently they confused Bluegrass with Blues. (Not that the Blues is necessarily negative either)
Idiots
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dmiller
Oak -- True (not blue).
Wonder what they might have said, had B.B.King taken the class, and he was asked to perform at the ROA??? Wonder what they may have labeled that music, eh??
-->
I can just hear it now:
(oh -- just a ps here -- B.B King would have HAD to stood for Bible believing King!!)
Way-speak is after all, way-speak -- and everthing becomes subject to change.
-->
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Belle
You have been quoted, my friend.
:)-->
Very well said!
I vaguely remember the Truesgrass. What really irked me was deviled eggs beging called blessed eggs. PUKE!
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