I left TWI five years ago. I've only met LCM twice, he was not the primary reason I left. I didn't even know about the sex predator stuff until we had been out for months.
We left because of the witch hunts, authoritarianism, micromanagement and stress of trying to live the TWI2 lifestyle(trickled down LCM.)Our lifestyle was ugly and unhealthy.
I don't need counseling, am not addicted to or believe Way doctrine. I will never desire to return to TWI or a group similar to it. I am comfortable with my spiritual journey.
If VPW had lived, if LCM and TWI2 had never existed, I don't have any idea what I might be doing or believing.
As for LCM being gone, current leadership in TWI adored him and copied his mannerisms, attitudes and style. Some even copied his hobbies, hairstyle and goattee. These would not be people I would trust under any circumstances.
I did want to add-- I wasn't boasting when I said I don't need counseling. I am just not in pain or depression. My pain and depression pretty much faded away after we finally left TWI.
If you are in lots of pain, or are depressed, or miserable, then please seek help! Everyone is different and what some brush off others are terrorized about. There is help out there. Please don't be afraid to seek it because of what TWI thought of it, or because someone else doesn't need it.
When I left twi (18 years ago)...it was for numerous reasons. At first, the reason was because I realized that Martindale had departed from "sound doctrine" and had no compassion or love for anyone but himself...shortly after that, MANY other things became apparent to me...it was like dominoes falling...I soon became aware of the fact that much of Wierwille's doctrine in pfal was flat out wrong. After that, I became aware of the sexual abuse by most of the top twi "leaders"...and on and on it went.
When I finally left, I had concluded that twi was screwed up from top to bottom, inside and out...wierwille and martindale were both in the "same boat" in my mind...and that included their doctrines and policies.
I have NEVER even been tempted to consider going back...I would just as soon stick my head into a hot oven.
As for LCM being gone, current leadership in TWI adored him and copied his mannerisms, attitudes and style. Some even copied his hobbies, hairstyle and goattee.
I wonder what mannerisms are being copied from the current president? -->
Do you consider anyone who joins an offshoot of TWI [who continue with some or most of VP's teachings] as returning back?
Many who leave do so because they are tired of being manipulated and micromananged, not because they have any serious problems with the doctrine.
I think many who leave will still want to "re-create" their early Way fellowship experience with like-minded people who cared (or at least seemed to care) about you, and who won't be a pain-in-the-@$$. This is what they're "going back" to, and as far as I'm concerned, it's "whatever floats your boat".
Myself, I like the diversity of opinions you get here at Greasespot, and the attempts to "think outside the Waybox." It makes you think about why you believe the way you do, and is more satisfying to me then having doctrine and dogma handed down from someone in the middle of a former cornfield.
I'm in therapy and I think it's a wonderful thing! I absolutely needed it in the beginning of the end of my marriage. Now, I probably don't need it anymore, but I continue because it's great to be able to bounce things off an objective person and to think out loud with someone who's not going to tell you what you want to hear, but rather what you need to hear.
I also love my therapist, his background makes it very easy for him to understand where I'm coming from and what I experienced in TWI. I recommend at least checking it when you get out or if you catch yourself thinking about TWI alot - even if you think you don't need it. ;)-->
Regarding returning to the TWI vomit....not gonna happen. I never had any truly great times and therefore, not many fond memories. There's nothing there for me, never really was. I was sort of in limbo the whole time I was "in" because the control and immersion happened so fast after I got married. It was almost like once I got my head to quit spinning I was able to stop the merry-go-round and get out.
I know that's very different for others and that many TWI-1's (not all, but many) had great times and met great people and have very fond memories. Maybe it's more tempting or that's the kind of experience you seem to think might drive people back. But it's certainly not people who were in my shoes.
Do you consider anyone who joins an offshoot of TWI [who continue with some or most of VP's teachings] as returning back?
Probably true. Offshoots have been described as keeping the baby, but throwing out the bathwater. So in that light, offshoots might represent the best twi once had to offer, with the simultaneous effort to dissuade the worst elements.
Many who leave do so because they are tired of being manipulated and micromananged, not because they have any serious problems with the doctrine.
I don't know if that is true of all areas. When I was in during the nineties I did not distinguish between PFAL/TWI1 doctrine and Present Truth. It was All doctrine.
In our area they had Bible verses to backup every bit of micromanagement.
I didn't begin to distinguish the two (PFAL doctrine and PResent Truth) until I came here, and even now it is all blurred together. The doctrines of the nineties used doctrine from earlier teachings etc.
Myself, I like the diversity of opinions you get here at Greasespot, and the attempts to "think outside the Waybox."
This was and is the very thing that I attempt to do everyday. I did not realize just how full of fear I was, when eventually I was marked avoided. I was afraid that if I "thought something" then it would happen. If I read a book or watched a show about some other worldly doctrine, then somehow I would get possessed by "reading it". If I took a different direction home from work I would be killed and on and on......such devilish doctrine.
I can think about all kinds of things and not be afraid anymore. Finally after 4 years some true healing is occuring.
That is why I do not believe the complaints by some of the posters, who say the forums are such repetitive places, or bitter places. Not everyone's "healing timetable" is the same. I spose it depends on how deep the wounds you suffered. Some cuts and scratches only require bandaids. Some require stitches. Yet others require casts and therapy because of the nature of their wound. Some have even died from their brainwashing.....
Just thinking outside the box and if feels good.......
I'll try to write a generalized comment and clarify a few things. I was doing fine until I decided to open new wounds. That's when the file cabinet in my mind started remembering. Otherwise I never thought or looked back at the way. I do find that rambling here does a lot for the soul. I also realise that TWI loves it because it keeps an eye on everyone. Mention money and lawsuit in a sentance and you can conjure up Satan himself!
Please read my original first and second paragraph because they come with a warning. I also said these questions should be answered to yourself, but what the heck! Someone said they miss the ROA and the people, but would never consider going back. Me, too. When this little seed starts(and I instantly destroy it) it's more for the people than the ministers.
The doctrine they back up with Bible suits them. Weirwill used the Bible to contradict everything Christianity believes in, and put a spin to benefit him. Even the Jesus man concept(and keep it to yourself) is a spin so that by making Jesus equal to man, you can make the man THE MAN OF GOD OF OUR DAY AND TIME. The entire way doctrine is garbage.
A cult is a cult. An offshoot is still a cult and is still tied to inaccurate interpretation. Best way to find out: Don't give them money and see if you're still welcomed!
Here's what stumps me:What is TW1, and a bunch of other classes? If Weirwill's doctrine had to be changed that was proof that it was always inaccurate. How much is the pfal class? Did it go down while other classes emerged?
These are just things I've seen go on with me at times. Like someone said, what some can brush off others have lasting scars...so true! But if you've brushed it off, what are you doing here? I happen upon this place by accident. You could say it's because of friends, but there is email...this is just a thought, because I'm one to talk.
Someone mentioned looking outside of the waybox...it's called reality and I joined it 25 years ago :D-->
Do you consider anyone who joins an offshoot of TWI [who continue with some or most of VP's teachings] as returning back?
quote:
posted by Kevlar:
Many who leave do so because they are tired of being manipulated and micromananged, not because they have any serious problems with the doctrine.
That is me to a "T". When somone else's nose is deep in my personal business, and claiming to speak for God -- it is time to pack up, and get out regardless of the organization doing so.
Do I accept pfal, and all that is taught there 100%? ------ NO
Do I accept some of the Word that is taught there? ------- YES
Does listening to off-shoots mean returning to twi? ------- NO
Does listening to off shoots mean I still like the Word? ---Yes
As I've said before -- I left twi, not the Word. I still have a hard time going into conventional churches, and hear them spew stuff that is doctrinally handed-down-through-the-ages, with no thought of questioning, or being open for discussion.
I like it here too, because of the diversity of opinions. Makes a guy sit up and actually think about why you believe what you do, and is it really valid or not.
A cult is a cult. An offshoot is still a cult and is still tied to inaccurate interpretation. Best way to find out: Don't give them money and see if you're still welcomed!
Signals -- I agree with your first sentence. Your third sentence defines the second, and may I say -- I have been *affiliated* with CES since they have been around, and they have never told me I had to give money.
In fact the exact opposite is true -- they teach free-will giving, and that based on what you decide, not them.
This is not an attack on you, just my personal observation from 10 or so years of hanging out with CES.
(I can not answer as to any of the other *off-shoots*, since I am not familiar with them.
Weirwill used the Bible to contradict everything Christianity believes in, and put a spin to benefit him. Even the Jesus man concept (and keep it to yourself) is a spin so that by making Jesus equal to man, you can make the man THE MAN OF GOD OF OUR DAY AND TIME.
Well -- every last thing docvic came up with, was already *out there* (doctrinally-wise) free for the learning, and in his case, *free* for the plaguarizing.
Lots of groups teach that Jesus is not God, and they don't give the MOGFODAT spin to it, and I don't think docvic did either -- but we'll never know for sure. Eh?
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Bramble
I left TWI five years ago. I've only met LCM twice, he was not the primary reason I left. I didn't even know about the sex predator stuff until we had been out for months.
We left because of the witch hunts, authoritarianism, micromanagement and stress of trying to live the TWI2 lifestyle(trickled down LCM.)Our lifestyle was ugly and unhealthy.
I don't need counseling, am not addicted to or believe Way doctrine. I will never desire to return to TWI or a group similar to it. I am comfortable with my spiritual journey.
If VPW had lived, if LCM and TWI2 had never existed, I don't have any idea what I might be doing or believing.
As for LCM being gone, current leadership in TWI adored him and copied his mannerisms, attitudes and style. Some even copied his hobbies, hairstyle and goattee. These would not be people I would trust under any circumstances.
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Ham
Nope, but I did eventually went back to school. I think finding what I should have done long ago and doing it helped quite a bit..
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dmiller
The ONLY urge I had *to return*, was the urge to go back to the ROA again -- to see old friends, and make new ones. Nothing more, nothing less.
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dmiller
Ha! Same *seed*, eh?
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Bramble
I did want to add-- I wasn't boasting when I said I don't need counseling. I am just not in pain or depression. My pain and depression pretty much faded away after we finally left TWI.
If you are in lots of pain, or are depressed, or miserable, then please seek help! Everyone is different and what some brush off others are terrorized about. There is help out there. Please don't be afraid to seek it because of what TWI thought of it, or because someone else doesn't need it.
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Rejoice
Do you consider anyone who joins an offshoot of TWI [who continue with some or most of VP's teachings] as returning back?
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GrouchoMarxJr
When I left twi (18 years ago)...it was for numerous reasons. At first, the reason was because I realized that Martindale had departed from "sound doctrine" and had no compassion or love for anyone but himself...shortly after that, MANY other things became apparent to me...it was like dominoes falling...I soon became aware of the fact that much of Wierwille's doctrine in pfal was flat out wrong. After that, I became aware of the sexual abuse by most of the top twi "leaders"...and on and on it went.
When I finally left, I had concluded that twi was screwed up from top to bottom, inside and out...wierwille and martindale were both in the "same boat" in my mind...and that included their doctrines and policies.
I have NEVER even been tempted to consider going back...I would just as soon stick my head into a hot oven.
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Kevlar2000
I wonder what mannerisms are being copied from the current president?
-->
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Kevlar2000
Many who leave do so because they are tired of being manipulated and micromananged, not because they have any serious problems with the doctrine.
I think many who leave will still want to "re-create" their early Way fellowship experience with like-minded people who cared (or at least seemed to care) about you, and who won't be a pain-in-the-@$$. This is what they're "going back" to, and as far as I'm concerned, it's "whatever floats your boat".
Myself, I like the diversity of opinions you get here at Greasespot, and the attempts to "think outside the Waybox." It makes you think about why you believe the way you do, and is more satisfying to me then having doctrine and dogma handed down from someone in the middle of a former cornfield.
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Belle
I'm in therapy and I think it's a wonderful thing! I absolutely needed it in the beginning of the end of my marriage. Now, I probably don't need it anymore, but I continue because it's great to be able to bounce things off an objective person and to think out loud with someone who's not going to tell you what you want to hear, but rather what you need to hear.
I also love my therapist, his background makes it very easy for him to understand where I'm coming from and what I experienced in TWI. I recommend at least checking it when you get out or if you catch yourself thinking about TWI alot - even if you think you don't need it.
;)-->
Regarding returning to the TWI vomit....not gonna happen. I never had any truly great times and therefore, not many fond memories. There's nothing there for me, never really was. I was sort of in limbo the whole time I was "in" because the control and immersion happened so fast after I got married. It was almost like once I got my head to quit spinning I was able to stop the merry-go-round and get out.
I know that's very different for others and that many TWI-1's (not all, but many) had great times and met great people and have very fond memories. Maybe it's more tempting or that's the kind of experience you seem to think might drive people back. But it's certainly not people who were in my shoes.
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oldiesman
Probably true. Offshoots have been described as keeping the baby, but throwing out the bathwater. So in that light, offshoots might represent the best twi once had to offer, with the simultaneous effort to dissuade the worst elements.
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Bramble
I don't know if that is true of all areas. When I was in during the nineties I did not distinguish between PFAL/TWI1 doctrine and Present Truth. It was All doctrine.
In our area they had Bible verses to backup every bit of micromanagement.
I didn't begin to distinguish the two (PFAL doctrine and PResent Truth) until I came here, and even now it is all blurred together. The doctrines of the nineties used doctrine from earlier teachings etc.
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outofdafog
This was and is the very thing that I attempt to do everyday. I did not realize just how full of fear I was, when eventually I was marked avoided. I was afraid that if I "thought something" then it would happen. If I read a book or watched a show about some other worldly doctrine, then somehow I would get possessed by "reading it". If I took a different direction home from work I would be killed and on and on......such devilish doctrine.
I can think about all kinds of things and not be afraid anymore. Finally after 4 years some true healing is occuring.
That is why I do not believe the complaints by some of the posters, who say the forums are such repetitive places, or bitter places. Not everyone's "healing timetable" is the same. I spose it depends on how deep the wounds you suffered. Some cuts and scratches only require bandaids. Some require stitches. Yet others require casts and therapy because of the nature of their wound. Some have even died from their brainwashing.....
Just thinking outside the box and if feels good.......
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signals
I'll try to write a generalized comment and clarify a few things. I was doing fine until I decided to open new wounds. That's when the file cabinet in my mind started remembering. Otherwise I never thought or looked back at the way. I do find that rambling here does a lot for the soul. I also realise that TWI loves it because it keeps an eye on everyone. Mention money and lawsuit in a sentance and you can conjure up Satan himself!
Please read my original first and second paragraph because they come with a warning. I also said these questions should be answered to yourself, but what the heck! Someone said they miss the ROA and the people, but would never consider going back. Me, too. When this little seed starts(and I instantly destroy it) it's more for the people than the ministers.
The doctrine they back up with Bible suits them. Weirwill used the Bible to contradict everything Christianity believes in, and put a spin to benefit him. Even the Jesus man concept(and keep it to yourself) is a spin so that by making Jesus equal to man, you can make the man THE MAN OF GOD OF OUR DAY AND TIME. The entire way doctrine is garbage.
A cult is a cult. An offshoot is still a cult and is still tied to inaccurate interpretation. Best way to find out: Don't give them money and see if you're still welcomed!
Here's what stumps me:What is TW1, and a bunch of other classes? If Weirwill's doctrine had to be changed that was proof that it was always inaccurate. How much is the pfal class? Did it go down while other classes emerged?
These are just things I've seen go on with me at times. Like someone said, what some can brush off others have lasting scars...so true! But if you've brushed it off, what are you doing here? I happen upon this place by accident. You could say it's because of friends, but there is email...this is just a thought, because I'm one to talk.
Someone mentioned looking outside of the waybox...it's called reality and I joined it 25 years ago
:D-->
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dmiller
That is me to a "T". When somone else's nose is deep in my personal business, and claiming to speak for God -- it is time to pack up, and get out regardless of the organization doing so.
Do I accept pfal, and all that is taught there 100%? ------ NO
Do I accept some of the Word that is taught there? ------- YES
Does listening to off-shoots mean returning to twi? ------- NO
Does listening to off shoots mean I still like the Word? ---Yes
As I've said before -- I left twi, not the Word. I still have a hard time going into conventional churches, and hear them spew stuff that is doctrinally handed-down-through-the-ages, with no thought of questioning, or being open for discussion.
I like it here too, because of the diversity of opinions. Makes a guy sit up and actually think about why you believe what you do, and is it really valid or not.
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dmiller
Signals -- I agree with your first sentence. Your third sentence defines the second, and may I say -- I have been *affiliated* with CES since they have been around, and they have never told me I had to give money.
In fact the exact opposite is true -- they teach free-will giving, and that based on what you decide, not them.
This is not an attack on you, just my personal observation from 10 or so years of hanging out with CES.
(I can not answer as to any of the other *off-shoots*, since I am not familiar with them.
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dmiller
Well -- every last thing docvic came up with, was already *out there* (doctrinally-wise) free for the learning, and in his case, *free* for the plaguarizing.
Lots of groups teach that Jesus is not God, and they don't give the MOGFODAT spin to it, and I don't think docvic did either -- but we'll never know for sure. Eh?
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