There was always a choice, and if a participant didn't want to finish their corps commitment, fellowship was always available.
The door was always available as well.
I remember something here: I sponsored a corps gal who quit the corps 3 months prior to her graduating!
How crazy I thought, for her to do that.
THAT ACT teed me off, because among other things I shelled out money to have her go thru the corps program only to have her quit before she graduated. All this unbeknownst to me.
BUT, that was her choice.
After that, she was still welcome at twig after that, still accepted in the beloved.
I guess that this is probably the rout of my unplacable anger with twi...
The things that I did because twi taught me that God desired/required them.
Some of the things that were required had relatively minor consequences...like moving to an area we hated...cause God needed us to move the word..ie North Dakota and Arkansas...
Marking and avoiding a life long friend ...
Abandoning family and responsibilities...
Some of our actions had more sinister consequences...
Well my stay with TWI wasn't so typical as I've come to understand. I had had friends who were in TWI long before I went to a twig. Many of these people were former hippy pals with whom I had shared some good times and in my mind they were just investigating the lastest thing which for them was TWI. After I went to Twig I was content to come and go as it suited me and I didn't really encounter much resistance. I continuned like this for quite a while before the early waves of the Corps rolled around and started putting some pressure to take the class, go to the Rock, etc. I went along with it but again mostly because I had some strong friendship ties but as those disappeared (people moved, or I moved, or they left TWI) my reasons for staying became far less compelling.
In the late 70s an especially agressive Corps guy rolled into town who was famous for reaming people and he was drawing the line about coming to fellowship, that it wasn't a part time thing, and God doesn't want lazy people, etc. I didn't argue with the guy, I just split. After he moved to another area I started hanging out with the few remaining Way friends I had and went to a twig or two but that was it for me in terms of formal participation. I did go to one of the music challenge things and saw people I hadn't seen in years so that was nice but it was far from sufficient to get me to go back to TWI.
In many ways I was lucky didn't leave behind my life to pursue a "professional" career with TWI
so I had just as many friends and acquaintances outside of TWI (more in fact) than I did within TWI. So it was hardly a stretch for me to drop out of TWI lifestyle since I was never really fully immersed in it at least to the extent that many others were (WOW, Corps, many relocations at the request of leadership). I didn't have a problem with them doing that but it wasn't for me and I wanted to go to school so I had those goals as a priority over any Way obligation I might have.
I believe that many had problems detaching from TWI because they got married to other Way followers which sort of kept people in place. It wasn't like they could just pick up and leave since they had a spouse who might not see things the same way. Of course there were plenty of people who felt that TWI was gonna be there for them through thick and thin but came to realization (usually after many years of work and toil) that TWI wasn't interested in doing that. In fact they wanted the followers to contribute more to TWI. Kinda backwards isn't it ? There were no rewards or acknowledgements from TWI just increased expectations that you would donate more money each year.
And as people got older and had kids they started realizing that picking up and moving whenever leaders wanted you to really sucked
and impacted your whole life. (Actually for me this is the primary reason that TWI forbade home ownership. Not because it was against biblical teaching but it kept people very mobile so they could move at a moment's notice or whenever their lease term was over). And if you have a family do you really want to keep living in aprartments
running Twigs and bugging peope to take 'The Class'. Some didn't mind but over time their pateince wore thin though not at the same rate as that of their spouse.
Anyway thats an overview of my participation in TWI. At times I was
really into it but for the most part it was just like going to church for me which of course bugged the hell out of those who though I should be more dedicated. I used to point out that most churches , even the one described in the Book of Acts, had comparatively few leaders in relation to the entire congregation(s)
they served. That is the large majority of the christian followers had jobs, families, and friends in addition to their faith. No one expected the average believer to be the next Paul or go through some long series of programs to become "salted". No. the spirtual belief was to support and serve your current goals which were hopefully established with God in mind. But TWI wanted everyone to go through the same programs and classes as if everyone was supposed to be a leader of some type. It was a cookie cutter , one-size-fits-all mentality that had absolutely NO historical precedent. As most realize TWI pushed these programs to keep money flowing IN to HQ. As we know that money never flows OUT. So what was it VPW said (or stole) ? Receive, Retain, Release is essential to growth ? Perhaps this explains the delfation of the Way organization. Sure they have lots of money still but they are shrinking , they know it, and they know everyone knows it.
Twi was a place of bondage....the bars of our prison being the dire threats and warnings of the consequences to be endured if we did not comply with the directives.
No, not every leader, not every are was like this...whicjh is why we have such a variety of opinions amnd experiences.
But the deeper our involvment, the greater our commitment, it brought us closer in our contact with the leaders in charge of twi at hq and the campuses....the more controlling and unpleasant things became.
I think there in lies much of what was sinister about twi.
We did that which we found personally abhorant, even destructive, not because WE wanted too, not because it was a good idea in leaderships opinion....but because twi taught us that it was God`s necessity....and to do anything less would result in personal calamity.
It is a very subtle and devious form of control....
Oldies, did you read what cowgirl was told by was the consequences of her departing the way corpes by the country coordinator??
The door was open if you didn`t mind breaking fellowship with God because you had broken your vow to him.
Then you were showed all of the horrible consequences reaped by people biblically and also provided examples with in the ministry of death and destruction following the breaking of commitment.
The door was open if you did not mind being DIRECTLY responsible for the death of a loved one, or being cut off spiritually from the protection of God, or in some cases being required to forego fellowship with the body of christ.
That was the door we walked thru when we didn't want to be involved anymore.
It was always open.
quote:
What is the beloved Oldiesman?
Jesus Christ is the beloved.
We were accepted in the beloved, going to twig even though we broke our corps commitment.
I obverved these things not just me but others who didn't follow thru with their Corps commitments.
Joy and happiness in twig were available to those who didn't finish their corps commitments or thought it wasn't for them or thought it was too hard or extreme for them. It certainly wasn't an easy thing, it was very hard but healing was available as well.
That is what I observed.
quote:
The door was open if you didn`t mind breaking fellowship with God because you had broken your vow.
For the sake of argument, let's say breaking the corps commitment meant breaking fellowship with God.
It was irrevocable oldies...once you broke your vow...you were deemed untrustworthey and spiritually suspicious.
The door WAS open as long as you didn`t mind putting ALL of your loved ones in mortal peril, being deemed a vow breaker and spiritually suspicious....
Do you know that the lc would keep track of you and warn the twiggies not to trust you or have any contact?
Do you know that if you tried to leave the area....they would call ahead and forwarn the lc and consequently any believers in the new area of your spiritual suspicion....never telling them why....just that you were deemed *dangerous*?
Then as cowgirl related, any death, any misfortune that befell you, was your personal responsibility.
if a participant didn't want to finish their corps commitment, fellowship was always available.
Which century? I am aware of very different circumstances- those who abandoned their committment to da vey and "god" were marked as traitors.. if they didn't have any family support, they were sent to the outback, with NO help or support from any locals.
We were "warned" of their coming- to refer all pleas for help and support to the bigwig in the area.
This happened more than once or twice, that I remember..
One instance, a corps couple were dropped for: an accidental pregnancy. It was UGLY.. apparently she would not get an abortion or anything.
They coulda just said "go in peace, come back when you're ready".. but NOOOOOO. "You're breaking your commitment to GOD ALMIGHTY."
So they desperately tried to continue with the corps in their existing circumstance.. without having their "cumberance" surgically removed..
I got to hear the story before any "warning" was issued. That's a "mistake" I never saw "them" ever make, again.
But yes, I would say they held a gun to their heads. "You're gonna really get it if you try to duck out of this, and by the way, don't 'corrupt' the 'household'"
The only reason some people left that ....hole, was because the idiots went TOO FAR.
That is what happened to me Mr. Hamm, I wish to God I had had the strength and fortitude of your friends to brave the displeasure and consequences of breaking a vow and dissapointmenting God ... I was told I that I must abort a wanted child or become a stenche in the nostrils of God.
I could give you scripture after damned scripture utilized to enforce their *recomendation* as a directive from God.
The lc even made the friggin appointment for me and would have PAID for it if I hadn`t been able to come up with the 500 bucks :-(
I know not one but TWO different women who were required to abort their children as well because they were in the corpes program for the very reasons I listed.....the really tragic part is, that they were never able to concieve after that and have had to endure the heartbreak of being forever childless from damage incurred in the procedure.
I've seen too many "smoking guns"- people cowering under the threats issued of what would happen if they left, or didn't do this, or didn't do that- to dismiss it as some kind of fable.
I have read about the same pressures being applied to prevent a teenager from reporting a rape perpetrated by a fellow twig member that her tc insisted she give a ride home to.
I know of the same pressures being applied to a parent to disown ... m&a a *possessed* daughter...Oh, her crime? At 17 she refused to *put out* for vp during his visit on the wow field...not that her family knew....for they had been told by vp himself that she was posessed and a liar...and not to listen to a thing she said (How`s THAT for the the conduct of vp in the good ol days?)
We also read how cw had these same pressures applied to her and her family in order to prevent her from turning in two child molesters...
Actual physical gun? No...as dangerous and intimidating....yeah
One instance, a corps couple were dropped for: an accidental pregnancy. It was UGLY.. apparently she would not get an abortion or anything.
...
So they desperately tried to continue with the corps in their existing circumstance.. without having their "cumberance" surgically removed..
I don't understand what you mean here.
I see this as they were dropped because the woman chose to bring the baby to term, and having a baby was not allowed in their circumstances, so therefore they disqualified themselves from their corps commitment.
But you said they tried to continue under their existing circumstance?
How could they since the woman decided to have the baby and therefore they were dropped...
1. Their committment to the corps was a committment to the almighty god, irrevokable at that.. and the bastards would not even think of letting go of that, and giving them a little slack. And the couple thought that the corps was what god wanted them to do with their lives.
2. They were pressured (understatement) to abort the baby.
But she did not have the heart, or conscience for that matter, to abort the baby..
They ASKED for a leave of absence. Denied.
No "exeptions" in der vey, you know..
They were labelled "idolatrous" for allowing a "little piece of tissue" coming between them and committment to the corps.
They lost EVERYTHING. No friends, only the wife had some family that I can remember, whom she had previously alienated because of der vey.
This part of the memory is a little foggy.. but I think they came to their rescue, to some degree.
The only reason I even caught wind of this stuff, was der vey did not cover their tracks, sufficiently.
They were from an area about 100 miles south of me. Apparently, a warning was issued to the fellowships there, but not here. They had no clue that we would be connected in any possible way.
They were labelled "idolatrous" for allowing a "little piece of tissue" coming between them and committment to the corps.
This one was used on me after I fled my first *appointment* for the procedure
The fetus was also deemed a *not alive* *parasite*
Scriptures about breaking vows and how it wsn`t really alive ... were utilized...
The second time they carried me to my appointment, I succeded in *renewing my mind* (ie switching off my conscience) and completed the procedure.....of course, I was then treated like a little hero for putting God first.
1. Their committment to the corps was a committment to the almighty god, irrevokable at that.. and the bastards would not even think of letting go of that, and giving them a little slack. And the couple thought that the corps was what god wanted them to do with their lives.
All this could be true. The commitment could have been of God in the first place.
Looking at it from the corps viewpoint, "giving them slack" would mean the corps would abandon their rule by allowing a couple to have a child while still in the program. na na na nah That would open a can of worms so the choices they apparent had was abort the fetus and continue in the program, or leave the program.
quote:
2. They were pressured (understatement) to abort the baby.
Apparently they were told that their commitment to God was more important than having their baby. I think twi should have stayed out of this judgment because it's obviously up to the couple, or even better yet, kept their mouths shut and just dismissed the volunteers from the program since they broke the rules under their circumstances.
quote:
But she did not have the heart, or conscience for that matter, to abort the baby.
Good for her, I bet she's happy she made that decision and didn't allow others to dictate her actions.
quote:
They ASKED for a leave of absence. Denied.
Not unusual.
quote:
No "exeptions" in der vey, you know..
Very little on those programs, quite regimental.
quote:
They were labelled "idolatrous" for allowing a "little piece of tissue" coming between them and committment to the corps.
Who said this, VP? I am surprmised if he did but who knows, he apparently screwed up quite a bit unbeknownst to the rest of us...
quote:
They lost EVERYTHING. No friends, only the wife had some family that I can remember, whom she had previously alienated because of der vey.
If they went in the Corps, they probably had not many material possessions to begin with.
Were they not allowed to go back to fellowship?
Not allowed to reapply to the Corps at a future date?
Many were, so their particular treatment is beyond me.
Why were others treatment different so that they got to twig and reapplied at a later date?
However I admit it's possible their treatment was that bad, God knows I wasn't there to witness that.
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oldiesman
There was always a choice, and if a participant didn't want to finish their corps commitment, fellowship was always available.
The door was always available as well.
I remember something here: I sponsored a corps gal who quit the corps 3 months prior to her graduating!
How crazy I thought, for her to do that.
THAT ACT teed me off, because among other things I shelled out money to have her go thru the corps program only to have her quit before she graduated. All this unbeknownst to me.
BUT, that was her choice.
After that, she was still welcome at twig after that, still accepted in the beloved.
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rascal
I guess that this is probably the rout of my unplacable anger with twi...
The things that I did because twi taught me that God desired/required them.
Some of the things that were required had relatively minor consequences...like moving to an area we hated...cause God needed us to move the word..ie North Dakota and Arkansas...
Marking and avoiding a life long friend ...
Abandoning family and responsibilities...
Some of our actions had more sinister consequences...
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diazbro
Well my stay with TWI wasn't so typical as I've come to understand. I had had friends who were in TWI long before I went to a twig. Many of these people were former hippy pals with whom I had shared some good times and in my mind they were just investigating the lastest thing which for them was TWI. After I went to Twig I was content to come and go as it suited me and I didn't really encounter much resistance. I continuned like this for quite a while before the early waves of the Corps rolled around and started putting some pressure to take the class, go to the Rock, etc. I went along with it but again mostly because I had some strong friendship ties but as those disappeared (people moved, or I moved, or they left TWI) my reasons for staying became far less compelling.
In the late 70s an especially agressive Corps guy rolled into town who was famous for reaming people and he was drawing the line about coming to fellowship, that it wasn't a part time thing, and God doesn't want lazy people, etc. I didn't argue with the guy, I just split. After he moved to another area I started hanging out with the few remaining Way friends I had and went to a twig or two but that was it for me in terms of formal participation. I did go to one of the music challenge things and saw people I hadn't seen in years so that was nice but it was far from sufficient to get me to go back to TWI.
In many ways I was lucky didn't leave behind my life to pursue a "professional" career with TWI
so I had just as many friends and acquaintances outside of TWI (more in fact) than I did within TWI. So it was hardly a stretch for me to drop out of TWI lifestyle since I was never really fully immersed in it at least to the extent that many others were (WOW, Corps, many relocations at the request of leadership). I didn't have a problem with them doing that but it wasn't for me and I wanted to go to school so I had those goals as a priority over any Way obligation I might have.
I believe that many had problems detaching from TWI because they got married to other Way followers which sort of kept people in place. It wasn't like they could just pick up and leave since they had a spouse who might not see things the same way. Of course there were plenty of people who felt that TWI was gonna be there for them through thick and thin but came to realization (usually after many years of work and toil) that TWI wasn't interested in doing that. In fact they wanted the followers to contribute more to TWI. Kinda backwards isn't it ? There were no rewards or acknowledgements from TWI just increased expectations that you would donate more money each year.
And as people got older and had kids they started realizing that picking up and moving whenever leaders wanted you to really sucked
and impacted your whole life. (Actually for me this is the primary reason that TWI forbade home ownership. Not because it was against biblical teaching but it kept people very mobile so they could move at a moment's notice or whenever their lease term was over). And if you have a family do you really want to keep living in aprartments
running Twigs and bugging peope to take 'The Class'. Some didn't mind but over time their pateince wore thin though not at the same rate as that of their spouse.
Anyway thats an overview of my participation in TWI. At times I was
really into it but for the most part it was just like going to church for me which of course bugged the hell out of those who though I should be more dedicated. I used to point out that most churches , even the one described in the Book of Acts, had comparatively few leaders in relation to the entire congregation(s)
they served. That is the large majority of the christian followers had jobs, families, and friends in addition to their faith. No one expected the average believer to be the next Paul or go through some long series of programs to become "salted". No. the spirtual belief was to support and serve your current goals which were hopefully established with God in mind. But TWI wanted everyone to go through the same programs and classes as if everyone was supposed to be a leader of some type. It was a cookie cutter , one-size-fits-all mentality that had absolutely NO historical precedent. As most realize TWI pushed these programs to keep money flowing IN to HQ. As we know that money never flows OUT. So what was it VPW said (or stole) ? Receive, Retain, Release is essential to growth ? Perhaps this explains the delfation of the Way organization. Sure they have lots of money still but they are shrinking , they know it, and they know everyone knows it.
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rascal
Twi was a place of bondage....the bars of our prison being the dire threats and warnings of the consequences to be endured if we did not comply with the directives.
No, not every leader, not every are was like this...whicjh is why we have such a variety of opinions amnd experiences.
But the deeper our involvment, the greater our commitment, it brought us closer in our contact with the leaders in charge of twi at hq and the campuses....the more controlling and unpleasant things became.
I think there in lies much of what was sinister about twi.
We did that which we found personally abhorant, even destructive, not because WE wanted too, not because it was a good idea in leaderships opinion....but because twi taught us that it was God`s necessity....and to do anything less would result in personal calamity.
It is a very subtle and devious form of control....
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CM
And what was that door Oldiesman?
What is the beloved Oldiesman?
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rascal
Oldies, did you read what cowgirl was told by was the consequences of her departing the way corpes by the country coordinator??
The door was open if you didn`t mind breaking fellowship with God because you had broken your vow to him.
Then you were showed all of the horrible consequences reaped by people biblically and also provided examples with in the ministry of death and destruction following the breaking of commitment.
The door was open if you did not mind being DIRECTLY responsible for the death of a loved one, or being cut off spiritually from the protection of God, or in some cases being required to forego fellowship with the body of christ.
What freedom!
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oldiesman
It was always open.
Jesus Christ is the beloved.We were accepted in the beloved, going to twig even though we broke our corps commitment.
I obverved these things not just me but others who didn't follow thru with their Corps commitments.
Joy and happiness in twig were available to those who didn't finish their corps commitments or thought it wasn't for them or thought it was too hard or extreme for them. It certainly wasn't an easy thing, it was very hard but healing was available as well.
That is what I observed.
For the sake of argument, let's say breaking the corps commitment meant breaking fellowship with God.Ok..
How did we get back in fellowship with God?...
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rascal
It was irrevocable oldies...once you broke your vow...you were deemed untrustworthey and spiritually suspicious.
The door WAS open as long as you didn`t mind putting ALL of your loved ones in mortal peril, being deemed a vow breaker and spiritually suspicious....
Do you know that the lc would keep track of you and warn the twiggies not to trust you or have any contact?
Do you know that if you tried to leave the area....they would call ahead and forwarn the lc and consequently any believers in the new area of your spiritual suspicion....never telling them why....just that you were deemed *dangerous*?
Then as cowgirl related, any death, any misfortune that befell you, was your personal responsibility.
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Ham
Which century? I am aware of very different circumstances- those who abandoned their committment to da vey and "god" were marked as traitors.. if they didn't have any family support, they were sent to the outback, with NO help or support from any locals.
We were "warned" of their coming- to refer all pleas for help and support to the bigwig in the area.
This happened more than once or twice, that I remember..
One instance, a corps couple were dropped for: an accidental pregnancy. It was UGLY.. apparently she would not get an abortion or anything.
They coulda just said "go in peace, come back when you're ready".. but NOOOOOO. "You're breaking your commitment to GOD ALMIGHTY."
So they desperately tried to continue with the corps in their existing circumstance.. without having their "cumberance" surgically removed..
I got to hear the story before any "warning" was issued. That's a "mistake" I never saw "them" ever make, again.
But yes, I would say they held a gun to their heads. "You're gonna really get it if you try to duck out of this, and by the way, don't 'corrupt' the 'household'"
The only reason some people left that ....hole, was because the idiots went TOO FAR.
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Ham
Oh yes, this was the "good old days". 1978 to be precise..
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rascal
That is what happened to me Mr. Hamm, I wish to God I had had the strength and fortitude of your friends to brave the displeasure and consequences of breaking a vow and dissapointmenting God ... I was told I that I must abort a wanted child or become a stenche in the nostrils of God.
I could give you scripture after damned scripture utilized to enforce their *recomendation* as a directive from God.
The lc even made the friggin appointment for me and would have PAID for it if I hadn`t been able to come up with the 500 bucks :-(
I know not one but TWO different women who were required to abort their children as well because they were in the corpes program for the very reasons I listed.....the really tragic part is, that they were never able to concieve after that and have had to endure the heartbreak of being forever childless from damage incurred in the procedure.
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Ham
I've seen too many "smoking guns"- people cowering under the threats issued of what would happen if they left, or didn't do this, or didn't do that- to dismiss it as some kind of fable.
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Ham
These good folks that I remember cowered too, at first.
Then they started waking up when they saw the spiritual bankrupcy of the organization.
I don't know if they could be considered stronger than others, maybe they were just damned lucky..
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Ham
Yep. And this all happened under:
vic's reign.
Good old days? Ptooie..
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rascal
I have read about the same pressures being applied to prevent a teenager from reporting a rape perpetrated by a fellow twig member that her tc insisted she give a ride home to.
I know of the same pressures being applied to a parent to disown ... m&a a *possessed* daughter...Oh, her crime? At 17 she refused to *put out* for vp during his visit on the wow field...not that her family knew....for they had been told by vp himself that she was posessed and a liar...and not to listen to a thing she said (How`s THAT for the the conduct of vp in the good ol days?)
We also read how cw had these same pressures applied to her and her family in order to prevent her from turning in two child molesters...
Actual physical gun? No...as dangerous and intimidating....yeah
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oldiesman
Mr Hammeroni:
I don't understand what you mean here.I see this as they were dropped because the woman chose to bring the baby to term, and having a baby was not allowed in their circumstances, so therefore they disqualified themselves from their corps commitment.
But you said they tried to continue under their existing circumstance?
How could they since the woman decided to have the baby and therefore they were dropped...
I guess I'm not understanding the story...
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Ham
They were pressured on two fronts:
1. Their committment to the corps was a committment to the almighty god, irrevokable at that.. and the bastards would not even think of letting go of that, and giving them a little slack. And the couple thought that the corps was what god wanted them to do with their lives.
2. They were pressured (understatement) to abort the baby.
But she did not have the heart, or conscience for that matter, to abort the baby..
They ASKED for a leave of absence. Denied.
No "exeptions" in der vey, you know..
They were labelled "idolatrous" for allowing a "little piece of tissue" coming between them and committment to the corps.
They lost EVERYTHING. No friends, only the wife had some family that I can remember, whom she had previously alienated because of der vey.
This part of the memory is a little foggy.. but I think they came to their rescue, to some degree.
The only reason I even caught wind of this stuff, was der vey did not cover their tracks, sufficiently.
They were from an area about 100 miles south of me. Apparently, a warning was issued to the fellowships there, but not here. They had no clue that we would be connected in any possible way.
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CM
this one of the biggest lies of twi
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Ham
Soooo.. what happened to this in depth spiritual perception and awareness?
Sure didn't help "protect" ME from these "bad influences"..
Apparently these "bad people" slipped under the radar..
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templelady
THe dynamics of an abusive relationship
Unexplained injuries
Fear of partner/group
Partner/group checks up on you
Verbal abuse by the partner/group, such as name-calling and demeaning comments
Giving up things that are important such as, work school, friends, time with family, activities, and other interests
apologizes for partner's/group's behavior
Partner/group abuses other people, animals, or things
You Change in appearance or behavior or your partner/group does
You and your partner/group spend most of your time together
If it walks like a duck...
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rascal
This one was used on me after I fled my first *appointment* for the procedure
The fetus was also deemed a *not alive* *parasite*
Scriptures about breaking vows and how it wsn`t really alive ... were utilized...
The second time they carried me to my appointment, I succeded in *renewing my mind* (ie switching off my conscience) and completed the procedure.....of course, I was then treated like a little hero for putting God first.
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Ham
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Ham
And sometimes I think I have reason to bitch and moan..
(((rascal)))
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oldiesman
Mr. Hammeroni:
All this could be true. The commitment could have been of God in the first place.Looking at it from the corps viewpoint, "giving them slack" would mean the corps would abandon their rule by allowing a couple to have a child while still in the program. na na na nah That would open a can of worms so the choices they apparent had was abort the fetus and continue in the program, or leave the program.
Apparently they were told that their commitment to God was more important than having their baby. I think twi should have stayed out of this judgment because it's obviously up to the couple, or even better yet, kept their mouths shut and just dismissed the volunteers from the program since they broke the rules under their circumstances. Good for her, I bet she's happy she made that decision and didn't allow others to dictate her actions. Not unusual. Very little on those programs, quite regimental. Who said this, VP? I am surprmised if he did but who knows, he apparently screwed up quite a bit unbeknownst to the rest of us... If they went in the Corps, they probably had not many material possessions to begin with.Were they not allowed to go back to fellowship?
Not allowed to reapply to the Corps at a future date?
Many were, so their particular treatment is beyond me.
Why were others treatment different so that they got to twig and reapplied at a later date?
However I admit it's possible their treatment was that bad, God knows I wasn't there to witness that.
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