I think that using honorable decent men and women to give the appearance of a legitimate Christian organization is one of the things that really upsets me.
It makes me very angry to have our pure motives, our willingness to *give our utmost for his highest*...be the tool used to manipulate us into supporting and participating in great evil....
I cannot imagine that God is pleased with what we have done in his name.
People outside the LDS church often view it as controlling.
But you have the right in the LDS church to look at your, bishop, your stake president, your organization president and SAY "NO". you can say "I disagree", you can say "I've prayed about it and I have been told NOt to do it"
And even tho they as individuals may not be happy with your decision--no one is going to come to your house and yell at you (and if they do , someone higher up will put an end to that nonsense), no one is going to threaten you with death from GOd's hand etc.
YOu can be excommunicated for Adultry, alcoholism, criminal activity etc but that has to be proven--really proven not just someones gossip.
Catcup is right--its part of the abuse cycle--if you are in fear you pass the fear along
People outside the LDS church often view it as controlling.
But you have the right in the LDS church to look at your, bishop, your stake president, your organization president and SAY "NO". you can say "I disagree", you can say "I've prayed about it and I have been told NOt to do it"
And even tho they as individuals may not be happy with your decision--no one is going to come to your house and yell at you (and if they do , someone higher up will put an end to that nonsense), no one is going to threaten you with death from GOd's hand etc.
YOu can be excommunicated for Adultry, alcoholism, criminal activity etc but that has to be proven--really proven not just someones gossip.
Catcup is right--its part of the abuse cycle--if you are in fear you pass the fear along
But what about the guy who wrote a book saying the polynesian people are genetically linked to the Indians. He was booted for adultery when he was separated, but he and his wife have forgiven each other and reconciled.
What is your take? Can your church handle challenges to the faith?
...in order to be in good standing with God, and in the "household," that obedience to leadership was crucial.
...Romans 13:1&2... was the foundation for how my W.O.W. family was taught in W.O.W. training that it was to function...It is the foundational verse for any kind of leadership within The Way International...
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God, and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
...we were taught that "A polite request is a command," when coming from our leadership, especially VPW.
...we were obligated as God's most holy servants to obey without question "The Word of God" and the instruction from our elders.
Yeah, it all started in the Way Corps, but by the time I got out it had filtered down to the rank & file.
When we received orders or "directives" that we felt were unreasonable, it came down to two choices:
1. Obey
2. Leave
Or, I guess, a third choice existed, the one which I ordinarily chose - pretend to obey, and bide my time until the leader left and a more understanding leader came in.
They DID throw people out for mere spiritual *suspicion*
I know a family with 7 children that was thrown out because the mother was *suspected* of being *homo*....I also know a mother of twins throw out for the same suspiscion ..... geeeeze.
Both have family members still in who won`t associate with them because of this.
Yeah, we were taught at our first limb meeting as wows in Ark, that it was blind obediance that enabled peter to walk on the water.
He obeyed without thought, , he did exactly what Jesus said, when told, and because did not allow himself to look at the *circumstances* surrounding him... a miracle happened... he got to walk on water.
We were told that if we obeyed *our* leadership`s commands, that we TOO would be blessed by God and possibly be a part of a miracle.
We were ALSO told that even if leadership was wrong...that God would certainly cover and bless us for our meek obediance...either way...you win if you obeyed.
If we by chance looked at any *negatives* or *5 senses* knowledge...(in short ANYTHING that would interfere with implicit obediance) that it would be akin to when Peter started looking at *5 senses stuff* or *negatives* ie ... the wind and waves and began to sink....
This is how they taught us to ignore our better judgement, deny our personal preference, and ignore our fears.....this was a big tool in keeping us involved even after being mistreated .....this is how they were able to coerce us into performing the unthinkable.
This was one of the bullets chambered in the gun pointed at my head.
Now then, we were discussing the unwritten rules which were imposed on us, and were used as<BR>a bludgeon to force conformity to the rules.
Sure, we could have walked away- if we were<BR>willing to forsake ALL friends and family (outsiders, we ALREADY avoided on orders <BR>previously, insiders would now be told we were pariahs), and step outside the protection,<BR>favour and will of God, setting ourselves up for imminent destruction-<BR>and the destruction of our loved ones, as later became the doctrine.<BR><BR>Now, it was possible to ignore the suffering of others THEN by selective vision, <BR>rewrite it by selective memory, or ignore the unjust treatment you or yours faced thru<BR>rationalization.
That is NOT, however, intellectually honest and most of us prefer to<BR>refrain from it when we're aware of it.
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rascal
Catcup, very eloquently put.
I think that using honorable decent men and women to give the appearance of a legitimate Christian organization is one of the things that really upsets me.
It makes me very angry to have our pure motives, our willingness to *give our utmost for his highest*...be the tool used to manipulate us into supporting and participating in great evil....
I cannot imagine that God is pleased with what we have done in his name.
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templelady
People outside the LDS church often view it as controlling.
But you have the right in the LDS church to look at your, bishop, your stake president, your organization president and SAY "NO". you can say "I disagree", you can say "I've prayed about it and I have been told NOt to do it"
And even tho they as individuals may not be happy with your decision--no one is going to come to your house and yell at you (and if they do , someone higher up will put an end to that nonsense), no one is going to threaten you with death from GOd's hand etc.
YOu can be excommunicated for Adultry, alcoholism, criminal activity etc but that has to be proven--really proven not just someones gossip.
Catcup is right--its part of the abuse cycle--if you are in fear you pass the fear along
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def59
But what about the guy who wrote a book saying the polynesian people are genetically linked to the Indians. He was booted for adultery when he was separated, but he and his wife have forgiven each other and reconciled.
What is your take? Can your church handle challenges to the faith?
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Oakspear
When we received orders or "directives" that we felt were unreasonable, it came down to two choices:
1. Obey
2. Leave
Or, I guess, a third choice existed, the one which I ordinarily chose - pretend to obey, and bide my time until the leader left and a more understanding leader came in.
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Ham
Mo, too bad they didn't try that in der vey..
Amazing.. they DID throw people out because of idle gossip..
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rascal
They DID throw people out for mere spiritual *suspicion*
I know a family with 7 children that was thrown out because the mother was *suspected* of being *homo*....I also know a mother of twins throw out for the same suspiscion ..... geeeeze.
Both have family members still in who won`t associate with them because of this.
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Ham
Unbelievable, almost.
"come ere, little kiddies, we'll show you how to be REAL christians.."
All from a not-so real Navy Seal..
Ptooie.
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rascal
Yeah, we were taught at our first limb meeting as wows in Ark, that it was blind obediance that enabled peter to walk on the water.
He obeyed without thought, , he did exactly what Jesus said, when told, and because did not allow himself to look at the *circumstances* surrounding him... a miracle happened... he got to walk on water.
We were told that if we obeyed *our* leadership`s commands, that we TOO would be blessed by God and possibly be a part of a miracle.
We were ALSO told that even if leadership was wrong...that God would certainly cover and bless us for our meek obediance...either way...you win if you obeyed.
If we by chance looked at any *negatives* or *5 senses* knowledge...(in short ANYTHING that would interfere with implicit obediance) that it would be akin to when Peter started looking at *5 senses stuff* or *negatives* ie ... the wind and waves and began to sink....
This is how they taught us to ignore our better judgement, deny our personal preference, and ignore our fears.....this was a big tool in keeping us involved even after being mistreated .....this is how they were able to coerce us into performing the unthinkable.
This was one of the bullets chambered in the gun pointed at my head.
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Ham
Yep, we were in it together, were we not..
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Ham
I guess if you end up choking on the sea water, don't complain. Results not guaranteed. "But we DID give you da verd!"
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templelady
What challenge to the faith???
Adultery hardly is a challenge to the faith
Reconciliation does not change the fact he commited adultery
Being excommunicated from the LDS church is not ,in most cases, for life unless the party excommunicared wants it to be.
Repentance, and putting ones life in order usually means you can be rebaptized and return to full membership
That is beween the congregant and his/her bishop
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Belle
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