Once I got out of twi -- I never did listen to any who might criticize. And that means either those that criticized my leaving, or those that did so about my involvement.
What's gotten me is a lot of the "little" things that worked their way into my speech:
"Wouldn't you be blessed to..." = do it NOW
"Its not available..." = No
etc.
And then the so-called "biblical" definitions of words that were jammed in our heads:
grace...I, for years, recited "God's undeserved favor" in my head whenever I heard the word
spirit...are we talking definition 1(a), definition (4), or what?
and of course, for years when I read Matthew 28:19, I had the thought: this is a forgery inserted centuries later (never mind that this is a false statement and I KNEW it, I kept hearing that in the back of my head)
Thank GOD that this kind of stuff has faded largely (other than the memories), but, man it was insiduous.
One of the things we still deal with is how we deal with accidents, mistakes, unplanned happenings.
In TWI 2 those were never supposed to happen, if they did, then you did something wrong. Yet they happen to everyone! Sometimes it would be an accident, like cutting your finger in the kitchen, or you get to your car in a parking lot and find your tail light is busted.
One day we realized we were upset way out of proportion to the incident, and that we reacted that way all the time.
We've become more realistic. Computers do need to get fixed now and then, tail lights can be replaced, we have bandaids and first aide stuff so we can use it when it is needed...Fix the problem, prevent it if you can, but why get crazed over something you couldn't know was going to happen?
I think part of it deals with the old Law of Believing--since you have the nice first aid kit, you are believing etc and won't have accidents, like TWI and their firetruck.
I mentioned this once before on one of the threads...how I will take different ways home from work at night and think about how they taught us that if we got into a car accident it was because we switched from our planned out route......they really messed with our minds, I see it more and more everyday......
:( ;) :mellow: I remember hearing like you-to not change your route home. But also that sometimes you should change your route home so the adversary will get thrown off and not know which way you are going to go that day. (Go figure.) And heavens forbid a wife go home a different, unapproved way home that her husband doesnt know about! (Or stop at a store not discussed previously when telling said husband exactly where she was planning on going that day!)
Maybe it's because I have only been out and divorced for a short time or because I share too much of my life with people, but I tell those hard hearted jerks trying to push their beliefs on me that I used to be in a religious group that expected us to do the same thing and that I'm not interested in groups that promote that kind of behavior anymore.
Depending on the situation, I may ask a few questions about why they feel it's necessary to talk to me like that or say what they're saying.....then I politely say that it sounds too much like a religious group I was abused by and that I try to stay away from people and groups who remind me of the practices and beliefs of that group. There's a very nice, very sweet, very smart co-worker whom I really like but she's a devout Southern Baptist and frequently used to invite me to her church. She had no malice in her heart and was genuinely concerned about me and wanted to help in the only way she knew how. I told her that I appreciated her concern and invitations but that I was taking a break from anything religious right now. She respected that decision on my part and now we can talk more freely because she doesn't try to impose her beliefs on me or see me as a "project" or someone who needs to be saved.
I just try to be honest and very clear (aka blunt) without hurting the other person's feelings. But sometimes all you can do is what Ham said and tell them to back off as forcefully as necessary.
What I find so sad, is that where I have grown and changed and am honest with myself and others I still find that there are people also not associated with the Way that maintain the mental attitudes that caused the division to begin with. People you think you know are hard, legalistic, religious and mean.
Of which the worst I have ran across are the Saviors of PFAL and protectors of the reputation of their beloved Father in the Word. They form judgements not based on your heart and life but that imagined fruit known as how many have you put through the class. One group runs about and if the thoughts are pure enough concerning VP and his infallible words, they ordain and separate families accordingly to that standard. What is really sickening is they never turn the spotlight on themselves and define their own lives even according to what they teach!
I have seen families where one wanted to do no more than to live their life before God in all honesty and get their acts together while the other was stuck in the proverbial move the word mode and not deal with anything real. Separation and divorce follows while the false ministers applaud how the second put their god first.Volumes of scripture concerning commitment and the proper arrangement of life and relationships are tossed to the side, because the latter chooses to continue with blinders and put people through a completely outdated series.
Then they turn around and want you to feel bad or like in my case I let it get to me and I get mad and I cuss them out. And that isn't nice either and it causes more trouble.
What have you done for God lately? OMG, I hate that question coming from someone whose life is in shambles and they are so convinced they are doing all the right things because they fulfill the ten commandments of their Father in the Word and they tithe and ABS to false ministers, speak the words of PFAL and get their sexual needs meet(just not with married women) and on and on. They turn the guilt on you because you actually believe the testimonies of the raped and molested.
With their mouths they do worship Him, but their hearts are far from Him because "he that taught them the word" is more important than the Word of Life to them. Anyway that's what I see here in this initial post, not lingering Way brain in self, but dealing with the hard hearted hurtful legalistic attitudes of those you thought you knew and loved who have allowed themselves to be sucked back into and beyond the shameful mentality we all avoid like the plague.
Your post wingnut. reminds me of the people that I have met through the years that are loving, generous souls...intellegent and funny.......I watched in horror over the period of a year as they returned to activities and *fellowship* from different offshoots at how they seem to change.....(I am not talking about everyone or all offshoots)
It always seems to follow the same pattern though......
Incrimenatlly they become intollerant ...slowly, the arrogance begins to rear it`s ugly head....eventually followed be complete disdain for any who eshew twi teachings.
The people that I have seen ....grew many times worse than the most abusive folks in twi.
That seems to be a pitfall of hanging out with people who believe exclusively as you do....I believe that this can be a key factor in *way brain*...you are forever in the same place...never changing or helping each other to grow because you all believe that you already have the truth....it can be a real rut..
I remember being in a grocery store parking lot at 10:00 p.m. at night by myself once. At first, I was terrified thinking that I should absolutely not be by myself! Then I got to reality. You HAD to pick up the things you got, your roommates didn't want to come, and God is still God whether you are with people or not....logic wins. :)
Belle, I really prefer your method! This one individual, well, I tried to be polite, first. Good grief.. on and on it went.. over breaking some little known protocol not known since the days of Methuselah..you'd think I murdered somebody. And it wasn't in a situation I could exactly walk away from either.
Well, gotta do what you gotta do..
Back in the vey I probably woulda just cowered in a corner somewhere.. not this time!
Looking back, its kinda funny now.
As far as vey brain goes, I think I've handled it fairly well.. any more, I'll go the extra mile to resolve something in a polite, or humorous way.
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dmiller
Once I got out of twi -- I never did listen to any who might criticize. And that means either those that criticized my leaving, or those that did so about my involvement.
My life is my own, and not somebody else's. :)
David
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Ham
Well.. getting mad and cussing them out.. I don't think its always a bad thing, or makes thing worse, if you cuss "creatively".
I have had to do this to one poor soul a couple of months ago.. person was being plain legalistic, mean.. never involved with the old ministry either.
I told the person they reminded me of some a**holes in an old cult I used to be in..
"I ALREADY have one G*d D*mned A**hole, and you are NOT going to ream me another one..
"
No kidding.. this came out of my mouth, and most people think I'm a pretty nice guy.. :D
It worked WONDERS ! The person is now more of a friend than before..
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WordWolf
There's my approach, and there's Dogbert's approach from Dilbert.
When I encounter them, I sniff once then walk off.
I don't even waste my time with people like that if at all possible.
Dogbert's approach is to wave his paw at them and say "Bah!"
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Bob
I'm going to try Dogbert's approach on my inne-ex-wife next time.
I'll report back on how it goes.
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dmiller
Mr. H. -- HA!! :D Yer right as rain, but I never could *cuss creatively*.
I usually am opening mouth, and end up changing feet. :(
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markomalley
What's gotten me is a lot of the "little" things that worked their way into my speech:
"Wouldn't you be blessed to..." = do it NOW
"Its not available..." = No
etc.
And then the so-called "biblical" definitions of words that were jammed in our heads:
grace...I, for years, recited "God's undeserved favor" in my head whenever I heard the word
spirit...are we talking definition 1(a), definition (4), or what?
and of course, for years when I read Matthew 28:19, I had the thought: this is a forgery inserted centuries later (never mind that this is a false statement and I KNEW it, I kept hearing that in the back of my head)
Thank GOD that this kind of stuff has faded largely (other than the memories), but, man it was insiduous.
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Bramble
One of the things we still deal with is how we deal with accidents, mistakes, unplanned happenings.
In TWI 2 those were never supposed to happen, if they did, then you did something wrong. Yet they happen to everyone! Sometimes it would be an accident, like cutting your finger in the kitchen, or you get to your car in a parking lot and find your tail light is busted.
One day we realized we were upset way out of proportion to the incident, and that we reacted that way all the time.
We've become more realistic. Computers do need to get fixed now and then, tail lights can be replaced, we have bandaids and first aide stuff so we can use it when it is needed...Fix the problem, prevent it if you can, but why get crazed over something you couldn't know was going to happen?
I think part of it deals with the old Law of Believing--since you have the nice first aid kit, you are believing etc and won't have accidents, like TWI and their firetruck.
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outofdafog
I mentioned this once before on one of the threads...how I will take different ways home from work at night and think about how they taught us that if we got into a car accident it was because we switched from our planned out route......they really messed with our minds, I see it more and more everyday......
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penguin
:( ;) :mellow: I remember hearing like you-to not change your route home. But also that sometimes you should change your route home so the adversary will get thrown off and not know which way you are going to go that day. (Go figure.) And heavens forbid a wife go home a different, unapproved way home that her husband doesnt know about! (Or stop at a store not discussed previously when telling said husband exactly where she was planning on going that day!)
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Belle
Maybe it's because I have only been out and divorced for a short time or because I share too much of my life with people, but I tell those hard hearted jerks trying to push their beliefs on me that I used to be in a religious group that expected us to do the same thing and that I'm not interested in groups that promote that kind of behavior anymore.
Depending on the situation, I may ask a few questions about why they feel it's necessary to talk to me like that or say what they're saying.....then I politely say that it sounds too much like a religious group I was abused by and that I try to stay away from people and groups who remind me of the practices and beliefs of that group. There's a very nice, very sweet, very smart co-worker whom I really like but she's a devout Southern Baptist and frequently used to invite me to her church. She had no malice in her heart and was genuinely concerned about me and wanted to help in the only way she knew how. I told her that I appreciated her concern and invitations but that I was taking a break from anything religious right now. She respected that decision on my part and now we can talk more freely because she doesn't try to impose her beliefs on me or see me as a "project" or someone who needs to be saved.
I just try to be honest and very clear (aka blunt) without hurting the other person's feelings. But sometimes all you can do is what Ham said and tell them to back off as forcefully as necessary.
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wingnut
I have seen families where one wanted to do no more than to live their life before God in all honesty and get their acts together while the other was stuck in the proverbial move the word mode and not deal with anything real. Separation and divorce follows while the false ministers applaud how the second put their god first.Volumes of scripture concerning commitment and the proper arrangement of life and relationships are tossed to the side, because the latter chooses to continue with blinders and put people through a completely outdated series.
What have you done for God lately? OMG, I hate that question coming from someone whose life is in shambles and they are so convinced they are doing all the right things because they fulfill the ten commandments of their Father in the Word and they tithe and ABS to false ministers, speak the words of PFAL and get their sexual needs meet(just not with married women) and on and on. They turn the guilt on you because you actually believe the testimonies of the raped and molested.
With their mouths they do worship Him, but their hearts are far from Him because "he that taught them the word" is more important than the Word of Life to them. Anyway that's what I see here in this initial post, not lingering Way brain in self, but dealing with the hard hearted hurtful legalistic attitudes of those you thought you knew and loved who have allowed themselves to be sucked back into and beyond the shameful mentality we all avoid like the plague.
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rascal
Your post wingnut. reminds me of the people that I have met through the years that are loving, generous souls...intellegent and funny.......I watched in horror over the period of a year as they returned to activities and *fellowship* from different offshoots at how they seem to change.....(I am not talking about everyone or all offshoots)
It always seems to follow the same pattern though......
Incrimenatlly they become intollerant ...slowly, the arrogance begins to rear it`s ugly head....eventually followed be complete disdain for any who eshew twi teachings.
The people that I have seen ....grew many times worse than the most abusive folks in twi.
That seems to be a pitfall of hanging out with people who believe exclusively as you do....I believe that this can be a key factor in *way brain*...you are forever in the same place...never changing or helping each other to grow because you all believe that you already have the truth....it can be a real rut..
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Nottawayfer
I remember being in a grocery store parking lot at 10:00 p.m. at night by myself once. At first, I was terrified thinking that I should absolutely not be by myself! Then I got to reality. You HAD to pick up the things you got, your roommates didn't want to come, and God is still God whether you are with people or not....logic wins. :)
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Ham
Belle, I really prefer your method! This one individual, well, I tried to be polite, first. Good grief.. on and on it went.. over breaking some little known protocol not known since the days of Methuselah..you'd think I murdered somebody. And it wasn't in a situation I could exactly walk away from either.
Well, gotta do what you gotta do..
Back in the vey I probably woulda just cowered in a corner somewhere.. not this time!
Looking back, its kinda funny now.
As far as vey brain goes, I think I've handled it fairly well.. any more, I'll go the extra mile to resolve something in a polite, or humorous way.
Usually humorous does the job.
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