In TWI, after the end of the ROA, did anyone in the mid-late 90's get to really TALK with anyone at Advance Class Specials, etc., about what was REALLY going on in their area?
HECK NO!
It was "put on your best blessed face" while in your mind you're thinking, "Man, this BLOWS!" Say nothing bad. Hear nothing bad. See nothing bad.
I honestly wonder if part of the reason for LCM nixin' the ROA was so that people would be more isolated. Wasn't isolation one of the fronts of the adversary? Hmmmmm. Maybe I'm thinkin' of the front of other people. Yes, that must be it.
I remember as an innie finding stuff out on the 'net long before the news broke from my HFC - like when Dr. Don had lung cancer. Us peons were too stupid to know about it - but it was on Waydale long before we were told about it. I just KNEW not to talk about what I had read on the net - plus there were other posters writing about how they got in trouble for talking about something they shouldn't have known about ONLY because it was on the net before leadership was told about it...
Chas, you probably have a good point. LCM knew this was the time for everyone to "compare notes", and his ego and paranoa couldn't and wouldn't stand for it. Guess it backfired on him, thanks to the "evil webber's."
I remember as an innie finding stuff out on the 'net long before the news broke from my HFC - like when Dr. Don had lung cancer. Us peons were too stupid to know about it - but it was on Waydale long before we were told about it. I just KNEW not to talk about what I had read on the net - plus there were other posters writing about how they got in trouble for talking about something they shouldn't have known about ONLY because it was on the net before leadership was told about it...
Yeah......when this info on Don Wierwille broke, it was a WAKE-UP CALL to twi.
Twi took notice that Waydale was a force to contend with......and needed monitoring 24/7 by their inner circle collaberators. Lxnder and co. got a new "nametag"......WayGB.
It was the Hurricane that shook me. Odd as it may sound, Hurricane Katrina flooded my mind with WOW memories from '83 in New Orleans. Made me realize how much I missed worshiping.
It had been twenty years after leaving TWI and I still hadn't found a church to worship at. I was sick and tired of praying by myself all these years. Made a resolution to find a church before Christams. I attended my first service on Christmas Eve. I was unbelievably blessed BUT.... in the next few weeks, I found myself picking teachings apart, and it gave me the feeling that I may never be able to worship anywhere again.
I wondered what had happend to twi after all these years. I decided to find out. A search of The Way (I had forgotten the International part!) gave me pages of everything but what I was looking for. BUT then I remembered back in '76 the "cult" propaganda going around about twi. I remembered how we were briefed at twig not to speak to the press under any circumstances and not to listen to anyone or read anything relating to cults.
I searched "cults". That search led me to "The Cult That Snapped". I read every excerpt that night. I am at a loss for words in describing what I felt. Things get blurry now. I do believe there was a reference to Waydale on KK's site. I could be wrong... but SOMETHING led me to searching Waydale and finding GreaseSpot instead.
In my initial visit to GSC, after reading SO much info that I never knew, I decided that I probably will flourish in the church I am currently attending without being bound to ghosts of the past.
I think that is part of the legacy of the way....many of us find it difficult to fellowship with the rest of the body of christ because of the arrogance that we gained with the knowledge we learned in twi.
I know that I personally was very judgemental and rude at church thinking I that I knew so much more than those poor boobs.
It took me years to discover and tons of love and patience on their part ..... that these folks were so far ahead of me in the things that really mattered.....
These folks though they never heard of 4 crucified were incredibly kind and generous....living charity in every sense of the word, patient, longsuffering, meek.
In otherwards these christians whom I deemed myself so superior to were manifesting the fruit of the spirit that Scriptures tell us that we will *know each other by* in a way that even with all of twi`s knowledge...was strangly absent from so many of their leaders daily lives.
I don`t think our knowledge or beliefs from twi mean much anymore given the fruit manifested by those proclaiming them to be truth....I hope that you are able to enjoy your church, apreciate the christians good and bad that you will find, and enjoy each one of their unique perspectives .....who knows, they might have something wonderfull to teach you as well.
Good of you to stop by and share that with us - also good of you to "look" before you leap - I'm referring to your checking to see what happened in TWI. Sorry state of affairs, I'm afraid (pun intended).
After reading your post, I have to wonder how many other people have opted not to turn that rock over after they did a little internet research of their own.... hmmmmm..... LCM did say the internet was evil!
I can't help but think that I would have been so much better off had I found GSC a long time ago. But I DO KNOW that the timing of my discovery is for a purpose.
But, it's like when you first get into the Word... everything you learn you want to share (at least that's how I was/am). I feel the same way about finding GS.
Good point, ChasUFarley! I went wow with over 400 people. I've not found a trace of them here. I sponsored Corp. Don't see them either. I DO wonder, what happened to all those people???
For anyone struggling with their past involvement with TWI, even in the least bit, they need to be here. Out of the 400 wows, 162 completed the year. I'd say some people were struggling with something back then.
I do wonder (but don't dwell on it) if a good percentage of people are still in the dark. I wonder if there are still any "clueless" people out there.
Many people still hold a place in my heart. If finding GreaseSpot would do for them what it has done for me, they owe it to themselves to overturn some boulders.
I first found Waydale after having spent some time at CES's forum fellowshipping and debating with Garth, Rafael, Dan, et al. But what brought me to the internet to find ex-TWI information was a conversation with my old twig leader, a Corps girl named Lynda. She told me that VP had had a habit of having sex with Corps girls in his motorcoach and that prominent women in the ministry were involved in recruiting girls for him.
In all the years I'd lived through the POP stuff, I'd heard a lot about the sins and alleged sins of Craig, Howard et al, but nothing had ever been said about our Father In the Word being anything but a Man of God.
I was shocked of course.
So I figured if it were true, there had to be proof and I went online to investigate. At the time, I was a rather obnoxious PFAL groupie and started accusing almost everyone of libel, slander, being a spiritual hitchhiker, etc. You know the drill.
But dialog with folks like Garth and Rafael, eventually got the scales to drop off my eyes and I began to reconsider some things. I tend not to get wrapped up in the whole VP was a letch mindset, cause I wasn't there and when it comes right down to it, I don't know. I'm not sure I want to. But I think I have learned an awful lot about God and truth via the online ex-WAY community, and to say I'm grateful that Waydale and the GSC are here would be a gross understatement.
And, in return, Jerry, YOU have helped an awful lot of people. :) I know. I'm one of them.
Your willingness to at least consider and discuss things rather than merely throwing out attacks at people has gone a long way toward providing some of the best documentation of the doctrinal errors in PFAL we have around. All the research you, Raf, Garth, Research Geek and others put into honestly, objectively evaluating what we were taught is invaluable - especially to the research and logic challenged souls like me.
It was the Hurricane that shook me. Odd as it may sound, Hurricane Katrina flooded my mind with WOW memories from '83 in New Orleans. Made me realize how much I missed worshiping.
(Tell you what - you come here Tom and chase my two little hell raisers all day (starting around 5:30 AM), and see how much grey matter you're still working with at 10:50 PM.... k?)
Stopping by to say hi. Would have been back sooner but I have trouble remembering where you are. Talk about lack of gray matter. I do believe my gray matter is leaking rapidly these days, taking on a new identity and is being manifested in my hair. Or it could be the result of raising two special needs kids. (For sure they are responsible for losing my post-it with my forum directions on it.)
Anywaaaaay, I went WOW in 82. In my first post, I should have said I missed worshiping "with a body of believers" because truth be told, I've never stopped worshiping, but it's just not the same all by yourself... and that's definitely not the way God intended it to be.
Chas, I'd think twice about turning my kids over to Tom. I have a feeling he would teach them how to fart with their armpits and other cute and delightful things like that, then gas them up on sugar-laden snow cones and pass them back to you. :P
Grace, do you know how to save a bookmark? You could bookmark us so that you just have to click to get back to the cafe. I'll gladly help.
Also, I know what you mean about wanting to be with others for worship. If you haven't already, I suggest checking out a bunch of churches - kind of like a scavenger hunt - and I'm pretty confident you'll find a place where you are happy and delighted to be. Churches have reallly come a long way in what and how they teach and how they take care of people. :) I think that's another reason why TWI has no appeal to people who've already experienced the greatness of what churches have to offer.
Belle - The stories I could tell you about what those two demons already know how to do would curl your hair... I'm convinced that boys are born knowing how to make fart-noises in their armpits, and other talents that make us girls go, "eeeewwwwww....." Hubby has already taught Kristopher to answer "Deep fried dung beetles!" whenever he hears someone say, "What's for supper?"
Now that I think about it, what Tom knows is probably an improvement!
=====================
Interesting post Grace/Belle about missing being with a group, etc. - perhaps that can bring this forum to full circle - perhaps people found GSC/Waydale because they missed belonging to a group of (ahem...) likeminded people (I use that term very loosely on this forum, lemme tell you....)
I've been church shopping myself - but haven't found anything yet that's really worth the trouble. Either the doctorine is a total mess - I've found myself sitting in a pew thinking about how I'd write the pastor a letter about the holes in his teaching - or there was "politics" going on (no thank you) or they were so boring you wanted to hold a mirror under their nose to check for steam - "Hello...? Do they have a pulse?"
So, maybe this is the church for me... The Church of the Poisioned Minds! (a la GSC!)
I have found a church. Right now, it seems awesome. I've joined a bible study group of women and feel like I belong there... feel like I contribute something positive to the group. GS is a place I can probably get help in areas where I'm confused about what to believe. I don't think I'll become a "member" (of my new church) too soon. Happy as I am right now, I need to know that I embrace the majority of their beliefs before I sign on the line. Right now, I can't say this... I'm still in the "checking it out" phase.
Bookmarks! Yes, I'll do that. Goodness! Sometimes the most obvious answers just don't come so easily to me... thank you for reminding me (and to think, I used to call myself computer literate).
I hesitated to join GS because, at first, honestly, I felt intimidated by the knowledge of all the former corp people here, but then.... realized it really doesn't matter "where" you were or "who" you were back then. We were all "in" twi and we all have something to share, but most of all, I joined because I have some experiences that people need to know about before they join twi.
I do agree, with so many good churches today... why would anyone want to join twi?
I found GSC by accident. It has lead me to some very interesting answers to questions I had on the back burner for so long. It answered my questions about the 'Faithful Remnant' and what realy happened to folks that where MIA from the 80's I knew from the mid 70's. I was not around in mid 80's so GSC has filled that GAP. The shock value is waring off from when I first starting comming here. I didnt know how to discern everything I was reading here.
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ChasUFarley
One other thing....
In TWI, after the end of the ROA, did anyone in the mid-late 90's get to really TALK with anyone at Advance Class Specials, etc., about what was REALLY going on in their area?
HECK NO!
It was "put on your best blessed face" while in your mind you're thinking, "Man, this BLOWS!" Say nothing bad. Hear nothing bad. See nothing bad.
I honestly wonder if part of the reason for LCM nixin' the ROA was so that people would be more isolated. Wasn't isolation one of the fronts of the adversary? Hmmmmm. Maybe I'm thinkin' of the front of other people. Yes, that must be it.
I remember as an innie finding stuff out on the 'net long before the news broke from my HFC - like when Dr. Don had lung cancer. Us peons were too stupid to know about it - but it was on Waydale long before we were told about it. I just KNEW not to talk about what I had read on the net - plus there were other posters writing about how they got in trouble for talking about something they shouldn't have known about ONLY because it was on the net before leadership was told about it...
Talk about a mind _ _ _ _.
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topoftheworld
Chas, you probably have a good point. LCM knew this was the time for everyone to "compare notes", and his ego and paranoa couldn't and wouldn't stand for it. Guess it backfired on him, thanks to the "evil webber's."
You wascally wabbit.
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skyrider
Yeah......when this info on Don Wierwille broke, it was a WAKE-UP CALL to twi.
Twi took notice that Waydale was a force to contend with......and needed monitoring 24/7 by their inner circle collaberators. Lxnder and co. got a new "nametag"......WayGB.
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Amazingrace
It was the Hurricane that shook me. Odd as it may sound, Hurricane Katrina flooded my mind with WOW memories from '83 in New Orleans. Made me realize how much I missed worshiping.
It had been twenty years after leaving TWI and I still hadn't found a church to worship at. I was sick and tired of praying by myself all these years. Made a resolution to find a church before Christams. I attended my first service on Christmas Eve. I was unbelievably blessed BUT.... in the next few weeks, I found myself picking teachings apart, and it gave me the feeling that I may never be able to worship anywhere again.
I wondered what had happend to twi after all these years. I decided to find out. A search of The Way (I had forgotten the International part!) gave me pages of everything but what I was looking for. BUT then I remembered back in '76 the "cult" propaganda going around about twi. I remembered how we were briefed at twig not to speak to the press under any circumstances and not to listen to anyone or read anything relating to cults.
I searched "cults". That search led me to "The Cult That Snapped". I read every excerpt that night. I am at a loss for words in describing what I felt. Things get blurry now. I do believe there was a reference to Waydale on KK's site. I could be wrong... but SOMETHING led me to searching Waydale and finding GreaseSpot instead.
In my initial visit to GSC, after reading SO much info that I never knew, I decided that I probably will flourish in the church I am currently attending without being bound to ghosts of the past.
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rascal
Welccome Amazing Grace. Glad you found us here :)
I think that is part of the legacy of the way....many of us find it difficult to fellowship with the rest of the body of christ because of the arrogance that we gained with the knowledge we learned in twi.
I know that I personally was very judgemental and rude at church thinking I that I knew so much more than those poor boobs.
It took me years to discover and tons of love and patience on their part ..... that these folks were so far ahead of me in the things that really mattered.....
These folks though they never heard of 4 crucified were incredibly kind and generous....living charity in every sense of the word, patient, longsuffering, meek.
In otherwards these christians whom I deemed myself so superior to were manifesting the fruit of the spirit that Scriptures tell us that we will *know each other by* in a way that even with all of twi`s knowledge...was strangly absent from so many of their leaders daily lives.
I don`t think our knowledge or beliefs from twi mean much anymore given the fruit manifested by those proclaiming them to be truth....I hope that you are able to enjoy your church, apreciate the christians good and bad that you will find, and enjoy each one of their unique perspectives .....who knows, they might have something wonderfull to teach you as well.
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ChasUFarley
Welcome Amazing Grace --
Good of you to stop by and share that with us - also good of you to "look" before you leap - I'm referring to your checking to see what happened in TWI. Sorry state of affairs, I'm afraid (pun intended).
After reading your post, I have to wonder how many other people have opted not to turn that rock over after they did a little internet research of their own.... hmmmmm..... LCM did say the internet was evil!
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Amazingrace
Thank you kindly for the welcome.
I can't help but think that I would have been so much better off had I found GSC a long time ago. But I DO KNOW that the timing of my discovery is for a purpose.
But, it's like when you first get into the Word... everything you learn you want to share (at least that's how I was/am). I feel the same way about finding GS.
Good point, ChasUFarley! I went wow with over 400 people. I've not found a trace of them here. I sponsored Corp. Don't see them either. I DO wonder, what happened to all those people???
For anyone struggling with their past involvement with TWI, even in the least bit, they need to be here. Out of the 400 wows, 162 completed the year. I'd say some people were struggling with something back then.
I do wonder (but don't dwell on it) if a good percentage of people are still in the dark. I wonder if there are still any "clueless" people out there.
Many people still hold a place in my heart. If finding GreaseSpot would do for them what it has done for me, they owe it to themselves to overturn some boulders.
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Jbarrax
I first found Waydale after having spent some time at CES's forum fellowshipping and debating with Garth, Rafael, Dan, et al. But what brought me to the internet to find ex-TWI information was a conversation with my old twig leader, a Corps girl named Lynda. She told me that VP had had a habit of having sex with Corps girls in his motorcoach and that prominent women in the ministry were involved in recruiting girls for him.
In all the years I'd lived through the POP stuff, I'd heard a lot about the sins and alleged sins of Craig, Howard et al, but nothing had ever been said about our Father In the Word being anything but a Man of God.
I was shocked of course.
So I figured if it were true, there had to be proof and I went online to investigate. At the time, I was a rather obnoxious PFAL groupie and started accusing almost everyone of libel, slander, being a spiritual hitchhiker, etc. You know the drill.
But dialog with folks like Garth and Rafael, eventually got the scales to drop off my eyes and I began to reconsider some things. I tend not to get wrapped up in the whole VP was a letch mindset, cause I wasn't there and when it comes right down to it, I don't know. I'm not sure I want to. But I think I have learned an awful lot about God and truth via the online ex-WAY community, and to say I'm grateful that Waydale and the GSC are here would be a gross understatement.
Peace
JerryB
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Belle
And, in return, Jerry, YOU have helped an awful lot of people. :) I know. I'm one of them.
Your willingness to at least consider and discuss things rather than merely throwing out attacks at people has gone a long way toward providing some of the best documentation of the doctrinal errors in PFAL we have around. All the research you, Raf, Garth, Research Geek and others put into honestly, objectively evaluating what we were taught is invaluable - especially to the research and logic challenged souls like me.
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ChasUFarley
Jerry - Haven't seen you around these parts for a while - good to cyber-see-you! Always enjoyed your posts -
Grace - Hope you're still around the baord - What year were you WOW, may I ask?
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Tom Strange
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ChasUFarley
A thousand pardons.
(Tell you what - you come here Tom and chase my two little hell raisers all day (starting around 5:30 AM), and see how much grey matter you're still working with at 10:50 PM.... k?)
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Tom Strange
oh... I think I'll pass... at least on a 'full time' committment... I wasn't being mean... just thought I'd save you some time...
I need to save all of the gray matter I can... not much left up there...
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Amazingrace
Stopping by to say hi. Would have been back sooner but I have trouble remembering where you are. Talk about lack of gray matter. I do believe my gray matter is leaking rapidly these days, taking on a new identity and is being manifested in my hair. Or it could be the result of raising two special needs kids. (For sure they are responsible for losing my post-it with my forum directions on it.)
Anywaaaaay, I went WOW in 82. In my first post, I should have said I missed worshiping "with a body of believers" because truth be told, I've never stopped worshiping, but it's just not the same all by yourself... and that's definitely not the way God intended it to be.
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Belle
Chas, I'd think twice about turning my kids over to Tom. I have a feeling he would teach them how to fart with their armpits and other cute and delightful things like that, then gas them up on sugar-laden snow cones and pass them back to you. :P
Grace, do you know how to save a bookmark? You could bookmark us so that you just have to click to get back to the cafe. I'll gladly help.
Also, I know what you mean about wanting to be with others for worship. If you haven't already, I suggest checking out a bunch of churches - kind of like a scavenger hunt - and I'm pretty confident you'll find a place where you are happy and delighted to be. Churches have reallly come a long way in what and how they teach and how they take care of people. :) I think that's another reason why TWI has no appeal to people who've already experienced the greatness of what churches have to offer.
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ChasUFarley
Belle - The stories I could tell you about what those two demons already know how to do would curl your hair... I'm convinced that boys are born knowing how to make fart-noises in their armpits, and other talents that make us girls go, "eeeewwwwww....." Hubby has already taught Kristopher to answer "Deep fried dung beetles!" whenever he hears someone say, "What's for supper?"
Now that I think about it, what Tom knows is probably an improvement!
=====================
Interesting post Grace/Belle about missing being with a group, etc. - perhaps that can bring this forum to full circle - perhaps people found GSC/Waydale because they missed belonging to a group of (ahem...) likeminded people (I use that term very loosely on this forum, lemme tell you....)
I've been church shopping myself - but haven't found anything yet that's really worth the trouble. Either the doctorine is a total mess - I've found myself sitting in a pew thinking about how I'd write the pastor a letter about the holes in his teaching - or there was "politics" going on (no thank you) or they were so boring you wanted to hold a mirror under their nose to check for steam - "Hello...? Do they have a pulse?"
So, maybe this is the church for me... The Church of the Poisioned Minds! (a la GSC!)
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Tom Strange
Hey! I resemble that!
Does the fact that I gave my (then) 8 year old nephew a chemistry set (telling him how he could make stink bombs, etc) tell you anything?
I don't know why my brother and sister in law were so upset with me...
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Amazingrace
I have found a church. Right now, it seems awesome. I've joined a bible study group of women and feel like I belong there... feel like I contribute something positive to the group. GS is a place I can probably get help in areas where I'm confused about what to believe. I don't think I'll become a "member" (of my new church) too soon. Happy as I am right now, I need to know that I embrace the majority of their beliefs before I sign on the line. Right now, I can't say this... I'm still in the "checking it out" phase.
Bookmarks! Yes, I'll do that. Goodness! Sometimes the most obvious answers just don't come so easily to me... thank you for reminding me (and to think, I used to call myself computer literate).
I hesitated to join GS because, at first, honestly, I felt intimidated by the knowledge of all the former corp people here, but then.... realized it really doesn't matter "where" you were or "who" you were back then. We were all "in" twi and we all have something to share, but most of all, I joined because I have some experiences that people need to know about before they join twi.
I do agree, with so many good churches today... why would anyone want to join twi?
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likeaneagle
I found GSC by accident. It has lead me to some very interesting answers to questions I had on the back burner for so long. It answered my questions about the 'Faithful Remnant' and what realy happened to folks that where MIA from the 80's I knew from the mid 70's. I was not around in mid 80's so GSC has filled that GAP. The shock value is waring off from when I first starting comming here. I didnt know how to discern everything I was reading here.
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ChasUFarley
Eagle - I can help you with that discerning what people -- there's two grouping you can use:
ALL US POSTERS.... and Mike.
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