This was classic Wierwille. The trick was, don't ever upstage Dr. Ego. Anything that took the focus away from him and his "ministry" was a devil spirit.
Yeah, shaz.......don't ever upstage "the father of answers."
And, those three wierwille-rantings that I posted were the extreme ones with only corps/staff. I do remember the Bill W@rg@ one....as mentioned on this thread. But, in comparison, veepee's ranting towards Bill was rather minor compared to the three I noted.
If the BRC wasn't setup perfectly one hour ahead of the sunday service, the brc setup coordinator was reamed a new one. If the sound checks were not done, coulter got yelled at. If it rained at corps week, the corps were yelled at for "not believing."
Heck, I've shelved away so many memories that when I start thinking about it.....strong, public reproof sessions were part and parcel of corps/staff days. One time in the New Bremen Cultural Center, wierwille gave a ranting to a female way prod singer......he was upset with her. And, as he fumed, he told her to swing her hips more and throw her boobs around a little....
Wierwille was the showman and the show must go on. All supporting casts were immaterial to the man who demanded the spotlight.
Wierwille was not the topic of this thread........but craiggers learned this stuff from the founder of twi. Veepee was far more suble.....especially in public meetings, on itineraries, or at the rock of ages. But his venomous side was well-known to the corps, "his kids."
Extreme verbal abuse within the house..........nice pleasantries, and a plastic smile, to the public.
No derail, Sky. :) I wanted to post these, but didn't know what kind of direction the thread would take. I think it's good for people to know vee pee was just as malicious and brutal as craiggers. He was just "smarter" about it....if you can call it that.
I remember my ex proudly telling me about how vee pee once jumped down some girl's throat because he asked for THREE ice cubes in his drink and she put FIVE. How DARE this young lady blow off his direction!! He was so awed by the precision and exactness of his instructions and his resolve to hold her to the high standard he set and expected from everyone.
Toppers, those letters from craiggers on the homo purges are in the WayDale documents section. I also have them, but didn't type them up because I thought they were already on here. Here's links to the two that are on the site:
It cracks me up how he always starts his rantings of a madman with "God bless you!" or some other syrupy greetings and ends with "I Love You", "Sincerely" or some other blather.....note, too, there's more p.s. sections! What's with the freaking p.s.??? Can't you just put it in the letter? It's not like they don't have word processing software at TWI, is it?
I just read one of the "homo" letters Belle. Thanks for posting the link. And so, what's wrong with what he said? Just kidding. Whoa. Glad I wasn't around for all of that! After reading that certain letter, I wonder how a certain old friend of mine made out during the homo purges. I do happen to know that he was gay when we witnessed to him on the WOW field in L.A. And I know that he certainly displayed his effeminate nature as he worked on staff at HQ, and frankly, I always wondered if he still dabbled in it. I won't say his name here, but if any of you are aware of any people who were "smoked out" at HQ, maybe you could invite me to a PM and let me know if this guy was sorely treated and booted...
If you look at the list of Active corps who were dropped in 1994
you find on the list Sharon and Richard Urquhart-- "dropped" for being inactive
So we have a time line
circa 1981 Richard Urquhart molests the son of a believer in the TWIG he attends in Ohio. He and Sharon are married at the behest of TWI and he transfers to Alaska where he is given the position of TWIG coordinator by TWI who has 1) stopped the parents of the molested child from going to the authorities by assuring them TWI would handle it 2) given Urguhart a position which is guaranteed to bring him into contact with new victims
1988 Richard Urquhart, TWI TWIG coordinator, is tried and convicted in Alaska for Molesting little boys :)
circa 1991 released from jail and , courtesy of TWI , sent back to Ohio, where a TWIG coordinator is ordered by his leadership to take Richard and Sharon into his home . TWI, exhibiting extreme intelligence and due diligence considering the magnitude of Richard Urquharts criminal offenses , places the Urquharts in the home of the TWIG coordinator who has, as members of his TWIG, the family of the boy who Richard molested in circa 1981. This causes large quantities of bovine excrement to be accelerated through the atmosphere by mini turbines.
1994 The Urquharts are dropped for being inactive
The speed and alacrity with which VPW and LCM instituted a "homo Purge" has always astounded me in light of this situation
I have said it before and I will say it again
It is MY OPINION that the "homo rant" was because LCM's activities were not confined to the female gender--and someone threatened to expose him. "the Rant" was nothing more than a ploy to deflect attention from himself and to give himself a ready cover if exposure was forthcoming ---you know the drill ---"Now that I and this great ministry have taken a stand against the debil spurt possessed homos who are bringing the Adversary into our midst, they are attacking me, your MOG, with baseless accusations...."
Belle, thanks for posting these. As bad as things could be at times in the "good old days", it just amazes me that it got this bad and that these so-called leaders descended into this degree of evil. It is heartbreaking that people who were just looking for "more harmony in the home" ended up enduring this kind of abuse.
Lcm seemed to know a leetle tooooooo much about the thought patterns of a person toying ( that just seems like a pun to me) with homoseuality.
In both letters the writing is atrocious, rude and just plain awful. It must have been to hard to type these letters because the grammar is so bad - but no one dared to correct the MOG.
It's funny how he speaks about habits of uncleanliness, yet had no problem with vpw and himself having to deal with their own speeeshal brand of depravity.
His masochism really came out - no wonder Donna joined the "enemy" - boy I bet that really peeved him. How come he didn't kick her out - and himself for allowing that thinking in his own household?
Man o man - am I glad I got out before all this excrement hit the fan. I could just imagine dreading this type of garbage arriving in my mailbox monthly - BLAAAAGHH
BTW - templelady - I'm not sure I followed your letter correctly - but were you implying that if lcm molested kids (even boys) that that mede him a homo? i'm not sure that's true. A pedophile, yes (if it's true -BIG IF!) but I don't think its considered to be one and the same (pedophilia and homosexuality)
Sure seems wrong to be on this subject - i think i'll just read for a while and see where this thread goes.
Not to try and speak for templelady but I think she is referring to LCM and the others protecting a pedophile by moving him from Ohio to Alaska where he continued to abuse children. He was caught and tried for it in Alaska. If they had handled this properly with the police in Ohio, he would not have been in Alaska to molest any children there. Instead, they wanted to keep it "in the household" and sounds like they sent this guy as far away from HQ as they could. But he got busted there. Do I have that right temple lady?
Speaking for what I know of the situation and of templelady...yeah, outofdafog, you got it right. I don't think templelady was implying lcm to be pedophile...but did get her strongly implying lcm to be a closet queen...
edited to add...
I agree that homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing.
....and the fact that LCM and gang wasted no time going ballastic over the "alleged" homosexual population, while making no effort to publicize and forewarn others in the household about the pedophile among them.
And If you look at the time line it took almost15 YEARSbefore anything was done about Rich Urquhart. And yes, Urquhart was both homosexual and a pedophile--got that directly from the one who would know--His wife. That is why TWI had them get married, Sharon needed someone to look after her with her health problems and Rich needed the "cover" of a wife. Again straight from Sharon to me. BTW Sharon was Corps 10th I believe--but I might have that wrong.
So it is safe to say that TWI knew about the "homo" menace for AT LEAST Fifteen years before they decided to "Do something"
Somehow, I'm not impressed
And no, I don't think LCM was interested in children at all--but I Think there was a good deal of AC mixed with the DC
And yes, Urquhart was both homosexual and a pedophile--got that directly from the one who would know--His wife.
Mo! You've said this a million times and I'm just now getting it! I've always heard, 'since he hurt little boys, he was a homosexual'. What you're saying is that not only did he hurt little boys, he also hurt men. (I say he hurt men because he was first and foremost a rapist.)
Sheesh what a dunce I've been!
NOW I see your point about how long it took lcm to 'smoke out the homos'.
The character aspect of twi's 'homo purges' always presented a dichotomy in thinking (can anybody say 'double-minded'?) that 'allowed' predators such as RU to run twigs, branches and children's fellowships (RU was doing all 3 when I was there) while good, innocent people's lives were ruined all in the 'holy' name of twi.
And twi sold it all as 'god's word' to the 'elite'.
Well.
If by 'elite' twi meant 'a private club of leaders that knowingly protected predators and eschewed the evil victims', well, then, twi was certainly the 'elite'.
And if by 'god's word' twi meant 'whatever any maniacal, unmedicated leader in full-blown psychotic/neurotic/schizo/whatever episodes tells you is god's word', well, then, twi was certainly promoting 'god's word'.
Frankly I think that what twi really meant was, 'You're either for us or against us. If you're against us, we'll do whatever it takes to discredit you, smear your name, ruin your family life, cost you your job, and leave you more broken than you could ever imagine.'
Oh...yeah...
Isn't that what these letters are implying? If not out-and-out stating?
It still blows my mind that anybody could possibly think for one minute that what twi taught, what twi stood for, what twi has done to this world was ever godly or profitable or worth the price of what twi did to the most innocent, the most helpless of all by protecting pedophiles from being prosecuted or even trying to keep pedophiles away from children.
There's no question that mistakes were made, no question.
But I do find it hard to believe that twi leaders would intentionally want these things.
"Intent" .... That means they wanted it to happen.
Do you really believe that?
If you do, please consider deeply the next quote, replacing twi with the RC church, of your last paragraph.
I think it's fair to apply this reasoning, if it's true, to RC church and other churches and groups wherein these things may happen:
It still blows my mind that anybody could possibly think for one minute that what the RC Church taught, what the RC church stood for, what the RC church has done to this world was ever godly or profitable or worth the price of what the RC church did to the most innocent, the most helpless of all by protecting pedophiles from being prosecuted or even trying to keep pedophiles away from children.
Oldies, it seems like you seek to minimalise the criminality and lack of Godliness in twi by attempting to point a finger of blame at another religious group entirely.
What happened in another group had no bearing on twi knowingly harboring a child molester and placing him in a position of authority over families with children....
There's no question that mistakes were made, no question.
But I do find it hard to believe that twi leaders would intentionally want these things.
"Intent" .... That means they wanted it to happen.
Do you really believe that?
That's a fine hair you are splitting OM
What I think is that TWI Leaders
INTENTIONALLY wanted to maintain the status quo
INTENTIONALLY wanted to Cover up any wrongdoing by Corps or those associated with TWI who had any sort of responsibility
INTENTIONALLY wanted to continue to whitewash events for many years on an ongoing basis
They may not have INTENTIONALLY wanted these things to happen ----But they INTENTIONALLY made sure that nothing was done to prevent them from happening ion the future.
The first "error" is a mistake--allowing said "error" to continue by shielding the guilty and continuing to provide a setting for "error" to be repeated is criminal.
And yes I say the same about it happening in ANY church.
18. Intent. "A person is presumed to intend the natural and probable consequences of his voluntary acts." Black's Law Dict, supra, p 1185. One "is not required in crimes to prove that a defendant intended the precise consequences of his act and his criminal intent can be inferred from his act," p 1067. Intent is thus objectively determined, not subjective. It is NOT determined by what the person professes or claims to want! Intent is determined by objective fact, objective foreseeable results, actual recurring events. So don't be scammed by phony denials! Look at the objective facts. And, "there can be no doubt that if the direct tendency of any man's willful act is to produce injury, and that injury is in fact produced, the intention is in law deducible from the act itself." People v Carmichael, 5 Mich 10, 17; 71 Am Dec 769 (1858); York's Case, 9 Metc. 93, 103; 50 Mass 93 (1845).
OM, I do attach intent to what twi did concerning RU.
Why? Because my daughter was victimized (not by RU, but by one of RU's 'students') and, therefore, I was forced into the behind-the-scenes dealings.
I experienced first-hand the intent of what twi was doing.
I'm going to say this boldly:
TWI knowingly put a pedophile in charge of children's fellowships and then took whatever legal/semi-legal actions they could find to stop any prosecution from happening to the pedophile when caught. These actions included, but were not limited to, sending 'reports' to the DA about the 'bad character' twi felt was exhibitied all along by the parents of the victims. TWI was so gung-ho about preventing the pedophile from being prosecuted and, therefore, gung-ho about not protecting children, that twi moved the pedophile around to keep the authorities from catching up with him.
This kind of organized activity to protect criminals and prevent prosecution is exactly what the RICO Act was designed to target.
Too bad 'freedom of religion' is equal to 'criminals run amuk' in this country.
Anyway, I have no first-hand experience of what happens in the RC to state one way or another if the RC had/has intent.
I'm sorry your thread took this turn, but I don't think it's really off topic because seeing the thought processes in their own words shows how easily the transition from hard-heartedness to criminal intent was made.
No derail, CW. I think it's important for people to know that TWI blatantly enabled, supported and covered for a pedophile, homosexual contrary to everything they put in writing or may have printed. I'm very, very thankful and admirable of you and MO and others who so willingly share your personal experiences, even in the face of callous dismissal and attacks on you by ignorant souls.
TWI knowingly put a pedophile in charge of children's fellowships and then took whatever legal/semi-legal actions they could find to stop any prosecution from happening to the pedophile when caught. These actions included, but were not limited to, sending 'reports' to the DA about the 'bad character' twi felt was exhibitied all along by the parents of the victims. TWI was so gung-ho about preventing the pedophile from being prosecuted and, therefore, gung-ho about not protecting children, that twi moved the pedophile around to keep the authorities from catching up with him
There's a LOT of intent right there, OM.. If nothing else, when twi saw these wrongs THEY should have been the ones to turn RU in to the authorities. There never should have been a coverup at all. One could say that they were trying to cover their own arses - but that still could have been handled differently.
One (not me) might could argue there was no intent prior to RU being moved to Alaska - but there sure as heck was once he was moved there. I figure the intent was there all along - I only wonder why.( I don't know him and I don't think I ever did.) Did he come from money? Did twi ordain him and then had to eat their words? They were so quick to ditch some - why not this obvious liability? I was in res with two that got kicked out for being homsexual - and one came from money - lots of it!
So now one can only wonder - speculate - which I am wont to do....
Twi's "logic" presented here is illogical. Why would twi protect a person that could've taken them down with his actions? By their very own doctrine they were justified in kicking him out - yet they kept on advancing him - hmmmmmmm
something was rotten in New Knoxville.....again!
I want to make a conclusion - but I refuse to start a rumor - I'm just thinking there had to be an "important" reason to keep him "free."
I always got the sense talking to Sharon, those days when we were in the same house after RU's arrest, that this was an ongoing thing for a very long time --the homosexuality I mean-(probably the pedophilia too--but I can't speak to that except for the cases I know about.)
I do know RU was active duty Air Force-- putting it all in the "Open" would have cost him his career. I think getting a caretaker for Sharon was pretty high up on TWI's to do list. I never knew why--never understood why someone with her health issues was allowed to go Corps in the first place.
Maybe it didn't have so much to do with who RU was as it did with who Sharon was--A lot of secrets there--a lot of skirting around issues. You always had the sense, or at least I did, that there was a whole wellspring of data that was always just on the tip of Sharon's tongue, there were a couple of times when I thought she was going to open up--But Sharon was tough--she'd survived a loveless marriage of convenience and kept up the facade. That carried a high price tag emotionally but she stuck it out.
The actual whys and wherefores of TWI and their early decisions vis-a-vis Sharon and Richard are probably lost forever--Doubt the Urquharts will ever talk and the original decision makers are probably long gone or entrenched in denial. Taken as a whole The Urquhart mess was just one more blimp on the TWI radar--important to those of us caught up in it but just one more brush fire in the over all picture.
TWI went to great extremes (from what I knew/understood) to take care of Sharon while Rich was in prison. From what you've told me concerning your enforced relationship with her...well, then the concept of a caretaker for her makes more sense than anything else. And the question of why she was accepted into the corps program begs the question of why twi took on the responsibility of her caretaking...which is something that was certainly outside of twi's known behavior patterns. Was there a lawsuit threat? Hmmmm!
Taken as a whole The Urquhart mess was just one more blimp on the TWI radar--important to those of us caught up in it but just one more brush fire in the over all picture.
THIS is the sad truth of twi...that something so horrendous, so unimaginable, so outside the realm of sanity was 'just one more brush fire in the over all picture' of twi.
There's no question that mistakes were made, no question.
But I do find it hard to believe that twi leaders would intentionally want these things.
"Intent" .... That means they wanted it to happen.
Do you really believe that?
If you do, please consider deeply the next quote, replacing twi with the RC church, of your last paragraph.
I think it's fair to apply this reasoning, if it's true, to RC church and other churches and groups wherein these things may happen:
I think BOTH the RC Church and TWI acted in a manner that was BEST FOR THEM, ONLY. TWI strongly subscribed to "Let not the ministry be blamed." They would do whatever necessary to look good - to look like they had no flaws in their leadership, or in their decisions. I've often said that the "T" in "TWI" really stands for "Teflon" because NOTHING sticks to them!
From the way they handled this situation in Ohio/Alaska, to how LCM "stepped down" from the throne, to how they handled the Allen case - it's all in whatever vein makes them look good. They would never eat a piece of humble pie - never admit error. Whenever a piece ran in a local paper about them, they always complained about how slanted it was - never considered the real impact or impression they made.
To move a pedophile, knowing well that he could/would act on his sick passions again, they certainly weren't "protecting the household" - they were protecting their own butts, and should be as accountable as the RC Church has been for relocating priests time and time again for similar crimes. Their decision was a reckless, selfish one - it produced more damage than anyone could have imagined. BUT IT COULD HAVE SIMPLY BEEN PREVENTED... think about it.
Stuff like this makes me so ashamed to have been in the company of that group....
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skyrider
Yeah, shaz.......don't ever upstage "the father of answers."
And, those three wierwille-rantings that I posted were the extreme ones with only corps/staff. I do remember the Bill W@rg@ one....as mentioned on this thread. But, in comparison, veepee's ranting towards Bill was rather minor compared to the three I noted.
If the BRC wasn't setup perfectly one hour ahead of the sunday service, the brc setup coordinator was reamed a new one. If the sound checks were not done, coulter got yelled at. If it rained at corps week, the corps were yelled at for "not believing."
Heck, I've shelved away so many memories that when I start thinking about it.....strong, public reproof sessions were part and parcel of corps/staff days. One time in the New Bremen Cultural Center, wierwille gave a ranting to a female way prod singer......he was upset with her. And, as he fumed, he told her to swing her hips more and throw her boobs around a little....
Wierwille was the showman and the show must go on. All supporting casts were immaterial to the man who demanded the spotlight.
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skyrider
Sorry Belle.....for the derail.
Wierwille was not the topic of this thread........but craiggers learned this stuff from the founder of twi. Veepee was far more suble.....especially in public meetings, on itineraries, or at the rock of ages. But his venomous side was well-known to the corps, "his kids."
Extreme verbal abuse within the house..........nice pleasantries, and a plastic smile, to the public.
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide.
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oldiesman
If this thread can be limited to letters, it'd be great.
I'd love to read all who freely avail to share them. :)
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Belle
No derail, Sky. :) I wanted to post these, but didn't know what kind of direction the thread would take. I think it's good for people to know vee pee was just as malicious and brutal as craiggers. He was just "smarter" about it....if you can call it that.
I remember my ex proudly telling me about how vee pee once jumped down some girl's throat because he asked for THREE ice cubes in his drink and she put FIVE.
How DARE this young lady blow off his direction!! He was so awed by the precision and exactness of his instructions and his resolve to hold her to the high standard he set and expected from everyone. 
Toppers, those letters from craiggers on the homo purges are in the WayDale documents section. I also have them, but didn't type them up because I thought they were already on here. Here's links to the two that are on the site:
Open Season
Declaration of War
It cracks me up how he always starts his rantings of a madman with "God bless you!" or some other syrupy greetings and ends with "I Love You", "Sincerely" or some other blather.....note, too, there's more p.s. sections! What's with the freaking p.s.??? Can't you just put it in the letter? It's not like they don't have word processing software at TWI, is it?
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oldiesman
Golly, I doubt my letters are gonna be as harsh as yours, Belle.
Most of mine are of the 70's and 80's. :)
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J0nny Ling0
I just read one of the "homo" letters Belle. Thanks for posting the link. And so, what's wrong with what he said? Just kidding. Whoa. Glad I wasn't around for all of that! After reading that certain letter, I wonder how a certain old friend of mine made out during the homo purges. I do happen to know that he was gay when we witnessed to him on the WOW field in L.A. And I know that he certainly displayed his effeminate nature as he worked on staff at HQ, and frankly, I always wondered if he still dabbled in it. I won't say his name here, but if any of you are aware of any people who were "smoked out" at HQ, maybe you could invite me to a PM and let me know if this guy was sorely treated and booted...
JL
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templelady
The Homo purges--one of my favorites
If you look at the list of Active corps who were dropped in 1994
you find on the list Sharon and Richard Urquhart-- "dropped" for being inactive
So we have a time line
circa 1981 Richard Urquhart molests the son of a believer in the TWIG he attends in Ohio.
He and Sharon are married at the behest of TWI and he transfers to Alaska where he is given the position of TWIG coordinator by TWI who has 1) stopped the parents of the molested child from going to the authorities by assuring them TWI would handle it 
2) given Urguhart a position which is guaranteed to bring him into contact with new victims 
1988 Richard Urquhart, TWI TWIG coordinator, is tried and convicted in Alaska for Molesting little boys :)
circa 1991 released from jail and , courtesy of TWI
, sent back to Ohio, where a TWIG coordinator is ordered by his leadership to take Richard and Sharon into his home 
. TWI, exhibiting extreme intelligence and due diligence considering the magnitude of Richard Urquharts criminal offenses 
, places the Urquharts in the home of the TWIG coordinator who has, as members of his TWIG, the family of the boy who Richard molested in circa 1981. This causes large quantities of bovine excrement to be accelerated through the atmosphere by mini turbines. 
1994 The Urquharts are dropped for being inactive
The speed and alacrity with which VPW and LCM instituted a "homo Purge" has always astounded me in light of this situation
I have said it before and I will say it again
It is MY OPINION that the "homo rant" was because LCM's activities were not confined to the female gender--and someone threatened to expose him. "the Rant" was nothing more than a ploy to deflect attention from himself and to give himself a ready cover if exposure was forthcoming ---you know the drill ---"Now that I and this great ministry have taken a stand against the debil spurt possessed homos who are bringing the Adversary into our midst, they are attacking me, your MOG, with baseless accusations...."
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tonto
Belle, thanks for posting these. As bad as things could be at times in the "good old days", it just amazes me that it got this bad and that these so-called leaders descended into this degree of evil. It is heartbreaking that people who were just looking for "more harmony in the home" ended up enduring this kind of abuse.
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doojable
Lcm seemed to know a leetle tooooooo much about the thought patterns of a person toying ( that just seems like a pun to me) with homoseuality.
In both letters the writing is atrocious, rude and just plain awful. It must have been to hard to type these letters because the grammar is so bad - but no one dared to correct the MOG.
It's funny how he speaks about habits of uncleanliness, yet had no problem with vpw and himself having to deal with their own speeeshal brand of depravity.
His masochism really came out - no wonder Donna joined the "enemy" - boy I bet that really peeved him. How come he didn't kick her out - and himself for allowing that thinking in his own household?
Man o man - am I glad I got out before all this excrement hit the fan. I could just imagine dreading this type of garbage arriving in my mailbox monthly - BLAAAAGHH
BTW - templelady - I'm not sure I followed your letter correctly - but were you implying that if lcm molested kids (even boys) that that mede him a homo? i'm not sure that's true. A pedophile, yes (if it's true -BIG IF!) but I don't think its considered to be one and the same (pedophilia and homosexuality)
Sure seems wrong to be on this subject - i think i'll just read for a while and see where this thread goes.
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outofdafog
Not to try and speak for templelady but I think she is referring to LCM and the others protecting a pedophile by moving him from Ohio to Alaska where he continued to abuse children. He was caught and tried for it in Alaska. If they had handled this properly with the police in Ohio, he would not have been in Alaska to molest any children there. Instead, they wanted to keep it "in the household" and sounds like they sent this guy as far away from HQ as they could. But he got busted there. Do I have that right temple lady?
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CoolWaters
Speaking for what I know of the situation and of templelady...yeah, outofdafog, you got it right. I don't think templelady was implying lcm to be pedophile...but did get her strongly implying lcm to be a closet queen...
edited to add...
I agree that homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing.
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topoftheworld
....and the fact that LCM and gang wasted no time going ballastic over the "alleged" homosexual population, while making no effort to publicize and forewarn others in the household about the pedophile among them.
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templelady
And If you look at the time line it took almost 15 YEARS before anything was done about Rich Urquhart. And yes, Urquhart was both homosexual and a pedophile--got that directly from the one who would know--His wife. That is why TWI had them get married, Sharon needed someone to look after her with her health problems and Rich needed the "cover" of a wife. Again straight from Sharon to me. BTW Sharon was Corps 10th I believe--but I might have that wrong.
So it is safe to say that TWI knew about the "homo" menace for AT LEAST Fifteen years before they decided to "Do something"
Somehow, I'm not impressed
And no, I don't think LCM was interested in children at all--but I Think there was a good deal of AC mixed with the DC
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CoolWaters
Mo! You've said this a million times and I'm just now getting it! I've always heard, 'since he hurt little boys, he was a homosexual'. What you're saying is that not only did he hurt little boys, he also hurt men. (I say he hurt men because he was first and foremost a rapist.)
Sheesh what a dunce I've been!
NOW I see your point about how long it took lcm to 'smoke out the homos'.
The character aspect of twi's 'homo purges' always presented a dichotomy in thinking (can anybody say 'double-minded'?) that 'allowed' predators such as RU to run twigs, branches and children's fellowships (RU was doing all 3 when I was there) while good, innocent people's lives were ruined all in the 'holy' name of twi.
And twi sold it all as 'god's word' to the 'elite'.
Well.
If by 'elite' twi meant 'a private club of leaders that knowingly protected predators and eschewed the evil victims', well, then, twi was certainly the 'elite'.
And if by 'god's word' twi meant 'whatever any maniacal, unmedicated leader in full-blown psychotic/neurotic/schizo/whatever episodes tells you is god's word', well, then, twi was certainly promoting 'god's word'.
Frankly I think that what twi really meant was, 'You're either for us or against us. If you're against us, we'll do whatever it takes to discredit you, smear your name, ruin your family life, cost you your job, and leave you more broken than you could ever imagine.'
Oh...yeah...
Isn't that what these letters are implying? If not out-and-out stating?
It still blows my mind that anybody could possibly think for one minute that what twi taught, what twi stood for, what twi has done to this world was ever godly or profitable or worth the price of what twi did to the most innocent, the most helpless of all by protecting pedophiles from being prosecuted or even trying to keep pedophiles away from children.
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oldiesman
There's no question that mistakes were made, no question.
But I do find it hard to believe that twi leaders would intentionally want these things.
"Intent" .... That means they wanted it to happen.
Do you really believe that?
If you do, please consider deeply the next quote, replacing twi with the RC church, of your last paragraph.
I think it's fair to apply this reasoning, if it's true, to RC church and other churches and groups wherein these things may happen:
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rascal
Oldies, it seems like you seek to minimalise the criminality and lack of Godliness in twi by attempting to point a finger of blame at another religious group entirely.
What happened in another group had no bearing on twi knowingly harboring a child molester and placing him in a position of authority over families with children....
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templelady
That's a fine hair you are splitting OM
What I think is that TWI Leaders
INTENTIONALLY wanted to maintain the status quo
INTENTIONALLY wanted to Cover up any wrongdoing by Corps or those associated with TWI who had any sort of responsibility
INTENTIONALLY wanted to continue to whitewash events for many years on an ongoing basis
They may not have INTENTIONALLY wanted these things to happen ----But they INTENTIONALLY made sure that nothing was done to prevent them from happening ion the future.
The first "error" is a mistake--allowing said "error" to continue by shielding the guilty and continuing to provide a setting for "error" to be repeated is criminal.
And yes I say the same about it happening in ANY church.
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CoolWaters
From http://medicolegal.tripod.com/definitions.htm#intent
OM, I do attach intent to what twi did concerning RU.
Why? Because my daughter was victimized (not by RU, but by one of RU's 'students') and, therefore, I was forced into the behind-the-scenes dealings.
I experienced first-hand the intent of what twi was doing.
I'm going to say this boldly:
TWI knowingly put a pedophile in charge of children's fellowships and then took whatever legal/semi-legal actions they could find to stop any prosecution from happening to the pedophile when caught. These actions included, but were not limited to, sending 'reports' to the DA about the 'bad character' twi felt was exhibitied all along by the parents of the victims. TWI was so gung-ho about preventing the pedophile from being prosecuted and, therefore, gung-ho about not protecting children, that twi moved the pedophile around to keep the authorities from catching up with him.
This kind of organized activity to protect criminals and prevent prosecution is exactly what the RICO Act was designed to target.
Too bad 'freedom of religion' is equal to 'criminals run amuk' in this country.
Anyway, I have no first-hand experience of what happens in the RC to state one way or another if the RC had/has intent.
Do you?
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CoolWaters
Belle,
I'm sorry your thread took this turn, but I don't think it's really off topic because seeing the thought processes in their own words shows how easily the transition from hard-heartedness to criminal intent was made.
IMO.
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Belle
No derail, CW.
I think it's important for people to know that TWI blatantly enabled, supported and covered for a pedophile, homosexual contrary to everything they put in writing or may have printed. I'm very, very thankful and admirable of you and MO and others who so willingly share your personal experiences, even in the face of callous dismissal and attacks on you by ignorant souls.
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doojable
There's a LOT of intent right there, OM.. If nothing else, when twi saw these wrongs THEY should have been the ones to turn RU in to the authorities. There never should have been a coverup at all. One could say that they were trying to cover their own arses - but that still could have been handled differently.
One (not me) might could argue there was no intent prior to RU being moved to Alaska - but there sure as heck was once he was moved there. I figure the intent was there all along - I only wonder why.( I don't know him and I don't think I ever did.) Did he come from money? Did twi ordain him and then had to eat their words? They were so quick to ditch some - why not this obvious liability? I was in res with two that got kicked out for being homsexual - and one came from money - lots of it!
So now one can only wonder - speculate - which I am wont to do....
Twi's "logic" presented here is illogical. Why would twi protect a person that could've taken them down with his actions? By their very own doctrine they were justified in kicking him out - yet they kept on advancing him - hmmmmmmm
something was rotten in New Knoxville.....again!
I want to make a conclusion - but I refuse to start a rumor - I'm just thinking there had to be an "important" reason to keep him "free."
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templelady
"important reason for keeping him free"
I always got the sense talking to Sharon, those days when we were in the same house after RU's arrest, that this was an ongoing thing for a very long time --the homosexuality I mean-(probably the pedophilia too--but I can't speak to that except for the cases I know about.)
I do know RU was active duty Air Force-- putting it all in the "Open" would have cost him his career. I think getting a caretaker for Sharon was pretty high up on TWI's to do list. I never knew why--never understood why someone with her health issues was allowed to go Corps in the first place.
Maybe it didn't have so much to do with who RU was as it did with who Sharon was--A lot of secrets there--a lot of skirting around issues. You always had the sense, or at least I did, that there was a whole wellspring of data that was always just on the tip of Sharon's tongue, there were a couple of times when I thought she was going to open up--But Sharon was tough--she'd survived a loveless marriage of convenience and kept up the facade. That carried a high price tag emotionally but she stuck it out.
The actual whys and wherefores of TWI and their early decisions vis-a-vis Sharon and Richard are probably lost forever--Doubt the Urquharts will ever talk and the original decision makers are probably long gone or entrenched in denial. Taken as a whole The Urquhart mess was just one more blimp on the TWI radar--important to those of us caught up in it but just one more brush fire in the over all picture.
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CoolWaters
I think you're onto something here, Mo.
TWI went to great extremes (from what I knew/understood) to take care of Sharon while Rich was in prison. From what you've told me concerning your enforced relationship with her...well, then the concept of a caretaker for her makes more sense than anything else. And the question of why she was accepted into the corps program begs the question of why twi took on the responsibility of her caretaking...which is something that was certainly outside of twi's known behavior patterns. Was there a lawsuit threat? Hmmmm!
THIS is the sad truth of twi...that something so horrendous, so unimaginable, so outside the realm of sanity was 'just one more brush fire in the over all picture' of twi.
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ChasUFarley
I think BOTH the RC Church and TWI acted in a manner that was BEST FOR THEM, ONLY. TWI strongly subscribed to "Let not the ministry be blamed." They would do whatever necessary to look good - to look like they had no flaws in their leadership, or in their decisions. I've often said that the "T" in "TWI" really stands for "Teflon" because NOTHING sticks to them!
From the way they handled this situation in Ohio/Alaska, to how LCM "stepped down" from the throne, to how they handled the Allen case - it's all in whatever vein makes them look good. They would never eat a piece of humble pie - never admit error. Whenever a piece ran in a local paper about them, they always complained about how slanted it was - never considered the real impact or impression they made.
To move a pedophile, knowing well that he could/would act on his sick passions again, they certainly weren't "protecting the household" - they were protecting their own butts, and should be as accountable as the RC Church has been for relocating priests time and time again for similar crimes. Their decision was a reckless, selfish one - it produced more damage than anyone could have imagined. BUT IT COULD HAVE SIMPLY BEEN PREVENTED... think about it.
Stuff like this makes me so ashamed to have been in the company of that group....
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