quote: My spouse & I spoke face-to-face with Harve Platig about why LCM ought to contact those he hurt like he had and to apologize to them. Are you sitting down....? This is what he actually said verbatim "Moses never had to apologize to the children of Israel for the sin he committed when he struck the rock. Why should Rev. Martindale do anything different."
I was thinking about this answer today.
The Bible doesn't say Moses DIDN'T apologize either! (The Bible doesn't record everything people said and did.) What lame reasoning and logic. Besides, it's ludicrous to even compare Moses and LCM and the two situations. They are totally different.
LCM expected people to write him letters of apology when they "blew it". I know of cases where people who were dropped from the Corps were expected to write him and apologize for whatever reason it was they were dropped.
This thread is about the youth on myspace. so Belle I finally get to "pull a Belle" and say Sorry couldn't help it.
I don't agree or diagree that Martindale owes an apology. I wouldn't hold my breath though. But would you like one from the youths on Myspace. When I fianlly learn enough about computera snd get an accoun there I will tell them you are expecting. But as I have asked before many times Why hold the youth accountable for something not thier problem! The second vatican council said all men are responsible for the killing of Christ. You are saying the same about the youth when you post that on this thread about the youth. Or am I "pulling another Belle" and putting words in you mouth. Maybe just despise Martindale and not the youth cause these young people are tryign to love a life and "let no man despise thy youth..."
It's not off topic, rick, it's been discussed on here...just look back a few posts; I don't have time to quote them for you. Good try, though.
I posted it to show the hypocrisy of TWI and what they're teaching these kids. They teach them to be responsible for their mistakes and when they "miss it" - they probably still even make them apologize to leadership for the smallest infraction, but they won't stoop to do it themselves even when they're caught red-handed.
I'm not holding the kids accountable - I wonder whey they don't hold their leadership accountable! Those kids have pretty low standards, imo, for blindly following a group of folks who have proven themselves to be unworthy of serving as pastors, ministers and examples to God's kids. They appear to be bright, articulate and good kids - I just hope they realize what kind of monster they're giving their youth and time to before it's too late. :(
maybe they want to stay around and take on new leadership. I hear lot more yong people are going Corps. RfR wont be around forever. Many youths want make TWI thiers. And the leadership is now encouraging this. They know that they are getting older and new leadership is needed. Cant the youth have the opportunity to do that?
Sure they can....just like the generations before them tried to do. I think it's a futile battle for a pseudo-ministry built on sand, lies, deceit, abuse and another man's work - but, hey, more power to 'em!
That's why I haven't been to myspace..... I remember all to well how they think....I was there once, ya know?
maybe they want to stay around and take on new leadership. I hear lot more yong people are going Corps. RfR wont be around forever. Many youths want make TWI thiers. And the leadership is now encouraging this. They know that they are getting older and new leadership is needed. Cant the youth have the opportunity to do that?
What do you mean ALOT more? like 5 or 6? Make TWI theirs? Lets look at all the "presidents" of The Way. VPW, stole most of PFAL from BG Leonard, and plagerized most of his early works from other people. There is a thread on this somewhere. VPW was also a sex offender and most likely an alchohalic. Great teacher though, and great with people. LCM, mini VPW. Major sex offender and power tripper. Great teacher once again. Wrote a crappy book however, Rise and Expansion. Taught that Eve had a sexual relationship with the Devil, among other idiotic things in WAP. Rosalie...most boring teacher ever. Knew the going ons of LCM, maybe VPW, as well. Did NOTHING to call LCM on his ungodly actions for YEARS, until forced to by a lawsuit. the rest is history. the youth of the ministry today, alot didnt have to survive the Indiana Campus. Dont get me started on all the going ons there.
"Make TWI theirs?" Why do you want to be affliated with these people? Birds of a feather, i guess....
Well my point is how do you know what is going on now? you don't. You speculate from the past and and make statments like "history will repeat itself."
One reason why I post is I like to let you know. So I hope rather than putting me down for going ot fellowship you may listen to me about what is going on. How else would you know?
One reason why I post is I like to let you know. So I hope rather than putting me down for going ot fellowship you may listen to me about what is going on. How else would you know?
And I think that's great rickyg... but... have they ever addressed the sins of the past? or do they just give everyone the old "it's of no profit" and "don't dwell on the past"??? The reason I ask this is because IF they haven't, then all they're doing is 'sweeping things under the rug'...
They tell you what you need to think about and focus on... and that's certainly not any of their "secret practices" is it? They knew about everything and they's still never admit to anything unless backed into a corner in a court of law... you know that, you seem like an intelligent person, you have to know that.
They haven't "corrected" anything, only brushed it aside and denied that it happened... sure, they may 'act' differently and sincerely... but under the surface it's the same old story, because the same folks are still pulling the strings...
You can't fix something if you don't think it's broken... they've never thought TWI was 'broken'... what did that one poster say over there? something to the effect that if you ask them about it they'll tell you, but nobody asks so they don't tell.. wasn't that the gist of it? while that's probably true, which I don't think is honest by the way, I'd be willing to bet you dollars to donuts that they's more than likely give you the "in the past" answer if the wrong questions were asked...
Well my point is how do you know what is going on now? you don't. You speculate from the past and and make statments like "history will repeat itself."
One reason why I post is I like to let you know. So I hope rather than putting me down for going ot fellowship you may listen to me about what is going on. How else would you know?
I do not think anyone is putting you down. We all had the choice, (ahh hem...until we were adults) to do what we want. The Way specializes in manipulation of truth, or what is truth to a conservative, fundamentalist organization. There is alot of great things that they do, but they do not have the monoply on the research, on teaching techniques, biblical truths...or whatever you want to talk about, and DO NOT have much in original work. They would LIKE you to think that, but if you are serious about growing spiritually, you need to look at the 'fruit' they are producing. Like JC, said.."by their fruits you shall know them.", or something to that extent. What is the fruit of all The Way presidents, for example? Not godly. Way dogma expects followers to tow a very hard line, while leaders in the upper echelons live their lives in such ungodly and hypocritical manner. Only until they are backed into a corner, will they put on the appearance of a "kinder, gentler" Way Int. Do not be fooled...do the research, check out the past, and you will see the present is all too familiar.
And I think that's great rickyg... but... have they ever addressed the sins of the past? or do they just give everyone the old "it's of no profit" and "don't dwell on the past"??? The reason I ask this is because IF they haven't, then all they're doing is 'sweeping things under the rug'.....
You can't fix something if you don't think it's broken... they've never thought TWI was 'broken'... what did that one poster say over there? something to the effect that if you ask them about it they'll tell you, but nobody asks so they don't tell.. wasn't that the gist of it? while that's probably true, which I don't think is honest by the way, I'd be willing to bet you dollars to donuts that they's more than likely give you the "in the past" answer if the wrong questions were asked...
One of the myspace guys DID say that twi would answer if asked
but no one asked.
That was incorrect for several reasons.
One, people asked. Lots of posters here asked.
Two, they were not given straight answers.
Answers were actually questions-"Why do you want to know?" or
accusations "Why are you questioning God's One True Ministry?"
"Questioning twi is doing the devil's work", et al.
Well see your point about addressing the past problems. Yet I still think corrections have been made in all but one area.
Areas of new change that might be of interest.
Fellwoships are self governing until a problem arises that is to big for FC to handle
-when they do they are handled in a tender and loving manner
-have not heard of andy Mark and Avoids being handed out
dont know if tht is because they are not used at all or if it is reflection of over all more lovingattitude
People coming back after leaving are not treated with actions not representing a Christian walk
-More than just me have come back in our branch and it has been great.
I talked to this individual more than once and he too cannot believe it
-The only manner they talk about people who have left are in way that they wish more would come back
I talked to my friend in CA (a young person who kept encouraging me to come back) and he said no bad mouthing is going on about you guys here on the internet...well maybe Belle.
People are not yelled into abundant sharing
-a debt free lifestyle is encouraged but people are not told God can't work for them if they are in debt
-people are also not told that God's power is directly realted to the % of ABS but rather by the operation of believing
people are taught that God loves a cheerful giver and that God gives back to us when we give
The New Foundational Class is Sweet
I have taken PFAL, Craig's and he New one.
My fav is the new one. PFAL 2nd and Craig's a distant 45th right between Women studies 101 and my intro to psychology classs at college. No mention of Lesbian Sex.
II peter 1:20 (oh yes the big question...Belle crack your knuckles and prepare to pounce!)
(as it is written in the page) Epilusis-a form of epiluo. Which means to let loose upon, as dogs let loose upon game. I remember in the segment that it was used an example when interpretation is private. I think it is a good example of private interpretation. So Belle, Tomstrange, go easy on me hear, hehehe.
Really much of the structure in research has changed. All Corps are considered research. When the Corps have new stuff it is worked by the entire Corps over and over for a long time. I don't know if this is new but I think it is. Every person at fellowship is encouraged to work it and if they have questions they can either write TWI or thier bc or sate leadership.
So any more questions
Oh and there is rumor of big Corps class this year and next year. How big? Well if Belle says pretty please with sugar on top.
Fellwoships are self governing until a problem arises that is to big for FC to handle
Twigs are not 'told' what to teach? Folks are free to teach what is 'on their hearts' at fellowship now?
-The only manner they talk about people who have left are in way that they wish more would come back
I talked to my friend in CA (a young person who kept encouraging me to come back) and he said no bad mouthing is going on about you guys here on the internet...well maybe Belle.
Belle!!! You're famous all over the country!
People are not yelled into abundant sharing
-a debt free lifestyle is encouraged but people are not told God can't work for them if they are in debt
People are allowed to attend the AC if they're in debt?
-people are also not told that God's power is directly realted to the % of ABS but rather by the operation of believing people are taught that God loves a cheerful giver and that God gives back to us when we give
OK, are they told that they need to 'believe God bigger' in order to ABS more?
nice post, ricky. many things to consider in that.
it IS obvious that changes are being made. is this evolution due to the fact that this organization has its back against a wall, due to the exposure of its sick under belly, for the WHOLE world to see? or are the changes natural, after losing its dictator....everyone is finding more room to breath and make the Word their own, under the umbrella of Way doctrine, teaching, and fellowship? interesting...
I think they may have chaged structure but I am going to wait till they tighten down the reighns. The top people are still there that supported lcm and they were staunch backers of lcm. Did the tigers change their stripes? I don't think so. Only my opinion but they need the money so they have slipped the sheeps clothing back on.
The next class of corps is bigger. IMO The start of another downfall.
The only way I see this new more softer twi and believe it is, it lasts another 10-15 years and grows. Then and only then does it ever stand a chance of getting its' glory back. Wont happen IMHO. God can't bless a ministry that stole, killed and destroyed so many lives. It is still the slide of hand trick.
There's still plenty of slander going on. My friend couldn't go to my very recent wedding because I'm SEED. I had no idea I was seed, so I'm glad it came up.
Rosie was a huge part of the problem. I wouldn't even consider visiting a fellowship as long as she's in charge. I know who and how she is. Real change comes at the top. But at this point they've had NOTHING but corrupt leaders in their entire history. Why would anyone want to stick around and fight for that. What's to fight for. The whole thing is built on a mountain of sin. Think about that for a minute: not one honest leader in 60 years!
As far as I can see, the kinder and gentler routine is more of a corporate decision than a spiritual one. if they could control and micro manage every aspect of people's lives and keep membership growing, they would. They HAD TO become kinder or they'd be in the toilet right now. Talk about fruit, TWI is so fruitful that membership has steadily diminished for 2 decades. Face it, look at TWi for what it is. We know the bad stuff, what's the good stuff again?
rickyg - what's your deal with Belle - i think she has some very insightful posts - (belle aren't you fairly a new outie - past couple of years or so?) just curious because you keep bringing her name up in this thread -
Back when I was in TWI and TWI2 it was always about the history of the ministry - god how many times we had to go to annual events and go over to the BRC and look at old pictures and magazines of the past and the founders - ad nauseum - the history and past of the ministry was really important at that time - guess now since the past is a little sordid, we don't want to go there....
If they were honestly interested in bringing folks back, there should be some type of explanation for everything that has gone on for the past couple of decades........hey even Jimmy Swaggart got up on stage and cried and apologized....regardless of what you think of Swaggart......that took guts. I just think you can't build a good house on a rocky and shifting (shifty ) foundation.
I went to a church once between my time in TWI and TWI2 - apparently the pastor was having an extra maritial affair - I had no idea - but there he was on that Sunday morning and told everyone about it and asked for their forgiveness.....that took guts.......I had never seen anything like that.......there were consequences - he was relieved of his position.......
When ordinary way believers can pick and choose which fellowship they want to attend--meaning, a believer is not 'assigned' to a fellowship--that will be a big change.Of course, then the unloving legalists will lose their fellowships, which could only be good for the health of the believers. What standards are any leaders in TWI held to? Keep their higher up happy and looking good?
As long as they can bully people into silence, a leader can be an unloving creep and still be held up before others as some great believer.
I've known believers who moved halfway across a county to get into a different fellowship.
Great point Bramble. I went to 15 schools is 12 years. I'm sure that's not what God wanted: for me to always be the new guy and have to start over all the time. TWI hates it when people have roots in a community because roots = knowledge = power. You can't be helpless and at their mercy if you have outside structure in your life.
Thanks, Outofdafog. I appreciate the kind comments. :) Yes, this July will be the 2nd Anniversary of Dottie Moynihan “allowing” me to “take a break” from fellowship and my ex-husband divorcing me for “turning my back on God” because I wanted no more to do with TWI.
I wonder if rickyg is one of the ones who was trying for years to find out the identity of insurgent and is peeved….or maybe he has a crush on me and just wants to pull my hair.
Georgio, I missed that you were getting married. Congratulations!!!I hope, despite TWI’s influence on the guest list, it was a wonderful day for you and your new bride.
Thanks for sharing ricky, sincerely.
Fellwoships are self governing until a problem arises that is to big for FC to handle
-when they do they are handled in a tender and loving manner
-have not heard of andy Mark and Avoids being handed out
dont know if tht is because they are not used at all or if it is reflection of over all more lovingattitude
How do you reconcile that with the information that Georgio just posted? It’s not much different from a lot of other things people have shared here that happened recently with their own family who is still involved with TWI….there’s a wedding thread around here somewhere on that very attitude from TWI folks.
How did they communicate that fellowships are now self governing? What does that mean, exactly? Is the money that they give, or a portion of that staying in the fellowship to help folks? Do they still have to find free places for larger meetings, or are they allowed to use some of that money to rent nice, decent places for them?
People coming back after leaving are not treated with actions not representing a Christian walk
-More than just me have come back in our branch and it has been great.
I talked to this individual more than once and he too cannot believe it
-The only manner they talk about people who have left are in way that they wish more would come back
I talked to my friend in CA (a young person who kept encouraging me to come back) and he said no bad mouthing is going on about you guys here on the internet...well maybe Belle.
How big is your branch, ricky? Limb? Region? Why do they want folks to come back? Do you know how many folks have come back? How many folks in the USA are faithful TWI followers right now? Will they tell you?
No bad mouthing going on about who on the internet? TWI or me or folks who post on sites like this? I’m not sure who “you guys” is… I’m honored to get so much of your attention, though.
People are not yelled into abundant sharing
-a debt free lifestyle is encouraged but people are not told God can't work for them if they are in debt
-people are also not told that God's power is directly realted to the % of ABS but rather by the operation of believing
people are taught that God loves a cheerful giver and that God gives back to us when we give
Are folks allowed to participate in whatever they want if they are in debt? Are they allowed to take classes, attend specials, etc. if they don’t abundantly share or at least tithe? What if they want to give part of their tithe or ABS to groups outside of TWI?
The New Foundational Class is Sweet
I have taken PFAL, Craig's and he New one.
(as it is written in the page) Epilusis-a form of epiluo. Which means to let loose upon, as dogs let loose upon game. I remember in the segment that it was used an example when interpretation is private. I think it is a good example of private interpretation. So Belle, Tomstrange, go easy on me hear, hehehe.
Why do you think it’s a good example, ricky? Have you ever actually studied the word itself outside of using TWI resources? Really worked it for yourself or just taken a leader's word for it? Look at these two threads and then tell me if you still think TWI is teaching it correctly.
Are they teaching the first sin of mankind at all? Is homosexuality mentioned at all?
Really much of the structure in research has changed. All Corps are considered research. When the Corps have new stuff it is worked by the entire Corps over and over for a long time. I don't know if this is new but I think it is. Every person at fellowship is encouraged to work it and if they have questions they can either write TWI or thier bc or sate leadership.
From what I read in the latest magazine, they aren’t really “researching” anything, but rather learning where certain topics can be found in different TWI literature and what’s written there – “why reinvent the wheel when WE’VE ALREADY done all the work for you?” sort of attitude. That’s what they were saying for the last few years before I left and they were still saying it up until the time I did leave. Now they’ve even made it a formalized class for the WC training.
Do you know anyone who has presented information contradictory to what TWI teaches? Do you know anyone who would even bother trying? I know plenty of folks who have. Maybe you could research one of the things here that has been proven to be wrong doctrine and present your findings to see how receptive they really are about wanting to get to the accuracy of the the word.
Oh and there is rumor of big Corps class this year and next year. How big? Well if Belle says pretty please with sugar on top.
ricky, I don’t mind asking questions and if you want it with “pretty please with sugar on top” I’ll give it to you and even throw a cherry in to make it sweeter. I’m also interested in how many Way Disciples went out and how many new people they put through classes and how many of those folks stick around. I looked in the latest magazine and they never talk about actual numbers. Would you pretty please, with sugar on top and another cherry, tell us that information, too?
I'm also interested in the answers to Tom's questions. :ph34r: We're not asking too much, are we? I know it takes time to compose these posts and, especially when so many questions are tossed out there. I really do appreciate your willingness to have civilized discussions with us and to share what you do.
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Belle
Anyone remember this?
I didn't - it is in some old archive files....
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rickyg
This thread is about the youth on myspace. so Belle I finally get to "pull a Belle" and say
Sorry couldn't help it.
I don't agree or diagree that Martindale owes an apology. I wouldn't hold my breath though. But would you like one from the youths on Myspace. When I fianlly learn enough about computera snd get an accoun there I will tell them you are expecting. But as I have asked before many times Why hold the youth accountable for something not thier problem! The second vatican council said all men are responsible for the killing of Christ. You are saying the same about the youth when you post that on this thread about the youth. Or am I "pulling another Belle" and putting words in you mouth. Maybe just despise Martindale and not the youth cause these young people are tryign to love a life and "let no man despise thy youth..."
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Belle
It's not off topic, rick, it's been discussed on here...just look back a few posts; I don't have time to quote them for you. Good try, though.
I posted it to show the hypocrisy of TWI and what they're teaching these kids. They teach them to be responsible for their mistakes and when they "miss it" - they probably still even make them apologize to leadership for the smallest infraction, but they won't stoop to do it themselves even when they're caught red-handed.
I'm not holding the kids accountable - I wonder whey they don't hold their leadership accountable! Those kids have pretty low standards, imo, for blindly following a group of folks who have proven themselves to be unworthy of serving as pastors, ministers and examples to God's kids. They appear to be bright, articulate and good kids - I just hope they realize what kind of monster they're giving their youth and time to before it's too late. :(
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rickyg
maybe they want to stay around and take on new leadership. I hear lot more yong people are going Corps. RfR wont be around forever. Many youths want make TWI thiers. And the leadership is now encouraging this. They know that they are getting older and new leadership is needed. Cant the youth have the opportunity to do that?
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Belle
Sure they can....just like the generations before them tried to do.
I think it's a futile battle for a pseudo-ministry built on sand, lies, deceit, abuse and another man's work - but, hey, more power to 'em! 
That's why I haven't been to myspace..... I remember all to well how they think....I was there once, ya know?
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Chief Cornerstone
What do you mean ALOT more? like 5 or 6? Make TWI theirs? Lets look at all the "presidents" of The Way. VPW, stole most of PFAL from BG Leonard, and plagerized most of his early works from other people. There is a thread on this somewhere. VPW was also a sex offender and most likely an alchohalic. Great teacher though, and great with people. LCM, mini VPW. Major sex offender and power tripper. Great teacher once again. Wrote a crappy book however, Rise and Expansion. Taught that Eve had a sexual relationship with the Devil, among other idiotic things in WAP. Rosalie...most boring teacher ever. Knew the going ons of LCM, maybe VPW, as well. Did NOTHING to call LCM on his ungodly actions for YEARS, until forced to by a lawsuit. the rest is history. the youth of the ministry today, alot didnt have to survive the Indiana Campus. Dont get me started on all the going ons there.
"Make TWI theirs?" Why do you want to be affliated with these people? Birds of a feather, i guess....
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rickyg
Well my point is how do you know what is going on now? you don't. You speculate from the past and and make statments like "history will repeat itself."
One reason why I post is I like to let you know. So I hope rather than putting me down for going ot fellowship you may listen to me about what is going on. How else would you know?
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Tom Strange
And I think that's great rickyg... but... have they ever addressed the sins of the past? or do they just give everyone the old "it's of no profit" and "don't dwell on the past"??? The reason I ask this is because IF they haven't, then all they're doing is 'sweeping things under the rug'...
They tell you what you need to think about and focus on... and that's certainly not any of their "secret practices" is it? They knew about everything and they's still never admit to anything unless backed into a corner in a court of law... you know that, you seem like an intelligent person, you have to know that.
They haven't "corrected" anything, only brushed it aside and denied that it happened... sure, they may 'act' differently and sincerely... but under the surface it's the same old story, because the same folks are still pulling the strings...
You can't fix something if you don't think it's broken... they've never thought TWI was 'broken'... what did that one poster say over there? something to the effect that if you ask them about it they'll tell you, but nobody asks so they don't tell.. wasn't that the gist of it? while that's probably true, which I don't think is honest by the way, I'd be willing to bet you dollars to donuts that they's more than likely give you the "in the past" answer if the wrong questions were asked...
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Chief Cornerstone
I do not think anyone is putting you down. We all had the choice, (ahh hem...until we were adults) to do what we want. The Way specializes in manipulation of truth, or what is truth to a conservative, fundamentalist organization. There is alot of great things that they do, but they do not have the monoply on the research, on teaching techniques, biblical truths...or whatever you want to talk about, and DO NOT have much in original work. They would LIKE you to think that, but if you are serious about growing spiritually, you need to look at the 'fruit' they are producing. Like JC, said.."by their fruits you shall know them.", or something to that extent. What is the fruit of all The Way presidents, for example? Not godly. Way dogma expects followers to tow a very hard line, while leaders in the upper echelons live their lives in such ungodly and hypocritical manner. Only until they are backed into a corner, will they put on the appearance of a "kinder, gentler" Way Int. Do not be fooled...do the research, check out the past, and you will see the present is all too familiar.
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WordWolf
One of the myspace guys DID say that twi would answer if asked
but no one asked.
That was incorrect for several reasons.
One, people asked. Lots of posters here asked.
Two, they were not given straight answers.
Answers were actually questions-"Why do you want to know?" or
accusations "Why are you questioning God's One True Ministry?"
"Questioning twi is doing the devil's work", et al.
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Belle
So, what IS going on rickyg?
Have you had the new class yet?
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Tom Strange
Good question Sloopy... rickyg, you're up!
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rickyg
Ok ok I guess Im up.
Well see your point about addressing the past problems. Yet I still think corrections have been made in all but one area.
Areas of new change that might be of interest.
Fellwoships are self governing until a problem arises that is to big for FC to handle
-when they do they are handled in a tender and loving manner
-have not heard of andy Mark and Avoids being handed out
dont know if tht is because they are not used at all or if it is reflection of over all more lovingattitude
People coming back after leaving are not treated with actions not representing a Christian walk
-More than just me have come back in our branch and it has been great.
I talked to this individual more than once and he too cannot believe it
-The only manner they talk about people who have left are in way that they wish more would come back
I talked to my friend in CA (a young person who kept encouraging me to come back) and he said no bad mouthing is going on about you guys here on the internet...well maybe Belle.
People are not yelled into abundant sharing
-a debt free lifestyle is encouraged but people are not told God can't work for them if they are in debt
-people are also not told that God's power is directly realted to the % of ABS but rather by the operation of believing
people are taught that God loves a cheerful giver and that God gives back to us when we give
The New Foundational Class is Sweet
I have taken PFAL, Craig's and he New one.
My fav is the new one. PFAL 2nd and Craig's a distant 45th right between Women studies 101 and my intro to psychology classs at college. No mention of Lesbian Sex.
II peter 1:20 (oh yes the big question...Belle crack your knuckles and prepare to pounce!)
(as it is written in the page) Epilusis-a form of epiluo. Which means to let loose upon, as dogs let loose upon game. I remember in the segment that it was used an example when interpretation is private. I think it is a good example of private interpretation. So Belle, Tomstrange, go easy on me hear, hehehe.
Really much of the structure in research has changed. All Corps are considered research. When the Corps have new stuff it is worked by the entire Corps over and over for a long time. I don't know if this is new but I think it is. Every person at fellowship is encouraged to work it and if they have questions they can either write TWI or thier bc or sate leadership.
So any more questions
Oh and there is rumor of big Corps class this year and next year. How big? Well if Belle says pretty please with sugar on top.
Peace
RickyG
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Tom Strange
Me in bold
Thanks
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Chief Cornerstone
nice post, ricky. many things to consider in that.
it IS obvious that changes are being made. is this evolution due to the fact that this organization has its back against a wall, due to the exposure of its sick under belly, for the WHOLE world to see? or are the changes natural, after losing its dictator....everyone is finding more room to breath and make the Word their own, under the umbrella of Way doctrine, teaching, and fellowship? interesting...
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justloafing
Thanks rickyg
I agree Cheif.
I think they may have chaged structure but I am going to wait till they tighten down the reighns. The top people are still there that supported lcm and they were staunch backers of lcm. Did the tigers change their stripes? I don't think so. Only my opinion but they need the money so they have slipped the sheeps clothing back on.
The next class of corps is bigger. IMO The start of another downfall.
The only way I see this new more softer twi and believe it is, it lasts another 10-15 years and grows. Then and only then does it ever stand a chance of getting its' glory back. Wont happen IMHO. God can't bless a ministry that stole, killed and destroyed so many lives. It is still the slide of hand trick.
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Georgio Jessio
There's still plenty of slander going on. My friend couldn't go to my very recent wedding because I'm SEED. I had no idea I was seed, so I'm glad it came up.
Rosie was a huge part of the problem. I wouldn't even consider visiting a fellowship as long as she's in charge. I know who and how she is. Real change comes at the top. But at this point they've had NOTHING but corrupt leaders in their entire history. Why would anyone want to stick around and fight for that. What's to fight for. The whole thing is built on a mountain of sin. Think about that for a minute: not one honest leader in 60 years!
As far as I can see, the kinder and gentler routine is more of a corporate decision than a spiritual one. if they could control and micro manage every aspect of people's lives and keep membership growing, they would. They HAD TO become kinder or they'd be in the toilet right now. Talk about fruit, TWI is so fruitful that membership has steadily diminished for 2 decades. Face it, look at TWi for what it is. We know the bad stuff, what's the good stuff again?
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Chief Cornerstone
"The whole thing is built on a mountain of sin. Think about that for a minute: not one honest leader in 60 years!"
wow...
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outofdafog
rickyg - what's your deal with Belle - i think she has some very insightful posts - (belle aren't you fairly a new outie - past couple of years or so?) just curious because you keep bringing her name up in this thread -
Back when I was in TWI and TWI2 it was always about the history of the ministry - god how many times we had to go to annual events and go over to the BRC and look at old pictures and magazines of the past and the founders - ad nauseum - the history and past of the ministry was really important at that time - guess now since the past is a little sordid, we don't want to go there....
If they were honestly interested in bringing folks back, there should be some type of explanation for everything that has gone on for the past couple of decades........hey even Jimmy Swaggart got up on stage and cried and apologized....regardless of what you think of Swaggart......that took guts. I just think you can't build a good house on a rocky and shifting (shifty
) foundation.
I went to a church once between my time in TWI and TWI2 - apparently the pastor was having an extra maritial affair - I had no idea - but there he was on that Sunday morning and told everyone about it and asked for their forgiveness.....that took guts.......I had never seen anything like that.......there were consequences - he was relieved of his position.......
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Bramble
When ordinary way believers can pick and choose which fellowship they want to attend--meaning, a believer is not 'assigned' to a fellowship--that will be a big change.Of course, then the unloving legalists will lose their fellowships, which could only be good for the health of the believers. What standards are any leaders in TWI held to? Keep their higher up happy and looking good?
As long as they can bully people into silence, a leader can be an unloving creep and still be held up before others as some great believer.
I've known believers who moved halfway across a county to get into a different fellowship.
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Georgio Jessio
Great point Bramble. I went to 15 schools is 12 years. I'm sure that's not what God wanted: for me to always be the new guy and have to start over all the time. TWI hates it when people have roots in a community because roots = knowledge = power. You can't be helpless and at their mercy if you have outside structure in your life.
It's a technique.
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Belle
Thanks, Outofdafog. I appreciate the kind comments. :) Yes, this July will be the 2nd Anniversary of Dottie Moynihan “allowing” me to “take a break” from fellowship and my ex-husband divorcing me for “turning my back on God” because I wanted no more to do with TWI.
I wonder if rickyg is one of the ones who was trying for years to find out the identity of insurgent and is peeved….or maybe he has a crush on me and just wants to pull my hair.
Georgio, I missed that you were getting married. Congratulations!!! I hope, despite TWI’s influence on the guest list, it was a wonderful day for you and your new bride.
Thanks for sharing ricky, sincerely.
How do you reconcile that with the information that Georgio just posted? It’s not much different from a lot of other things people have shared here that happened recently with their own family who is still involved with TWI….there’s a wedding thread around here somewhere on that very attitude from TWI folks.How did they communicate that fellowships are now self governing? What does that mean, exactly? Is the money that they give, or a portion of that staying in the fellowship to help folks? Do they still have to find free places for larger meetings, or are they allowed to use some of that money to rent nice, decent places for them?
How big is your branch, ricky? Limb? Region? Why do they want folks to come back? Do you know how many folks have come back? How many folks in the USA are faithful TWI followers right now? Will they tell you?
No bad mouthing going on about who on the internet? TWI or me or folks who post on sites like this? I’m not sure who “you guys” is… I’m honored to get so much of your attention, though.
Are folks allowed to participate in whatever they want if they are in debt? Are they allowed to take classes, attend specials, etc. if they don’t abundantly share or at least tithe? What if they want to give part of their tithe or ABS to groups outside of TWI?Why do you think it’s a good example, ricky? Have you ever actually studied the word itself outside of using TWI resources? Really worked it for yourself or just taken a leader's word for it? Look at these two threads and then tell me if you still think TWI is teaching it correctly.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ndpost&p=121778
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ndpost&p=121782
Are they teaching the first sin of mankind at all? Is homosexuality mentioned at all?
From what I read in the latest magazine, they aren’t really “researching” anything, but rather learning where certain topics can be found in different TWI literature and what’s written there – “why reinvent the wheel when WE’VE ALREADY done all the work for you?” sort of attitude.Do you know anyone who has presented information contradictory to what TWI teaches? Do you know anyone who would even bother trying? I know plenty of folks who have. Maybe you could research one of the things here that has been proven to be wrong doctrine and present your findings to see how receptive they really are about wanting to get to the accuracy of the the word.
ricky, I don’t mind asking questions and if you want it with “pretty please with sugar on top” I’ll give it to you and even throw a cherry in to make it sweeter.
I’m also interested in how many Way Disciples went out and how many new people they put through classes and how many of those folks stick around. I looked in the latest magazine and they never talk about actual numbers. Would you pretty please, with sugar on top and another cherry, tell us that information, too?
I'm also interested in the answers to Tom's questions. :ph34r: We're not asking too much, are we? I know it takes time to compose these posts and, especially when so many questions are tossed out there. I really do appreciate your willingness to have civilized discussions with us and to share what you do.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
imo twi has no balls at all! that being said
if they did they would have an open and honest forum on thier web site to answer our polite questions
that will never happen imo because they have no balls
"oh toto we're not in ohio anymore" peace &
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Georgio Jessio
Indeed the guarding of info and unwillingness to answer questions is a red flag. What's the big secret?
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