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I think that would be a GREAT question to put to anyone in leadership, there. If they don't subscribe to this maxim, I would want to know why. I'm not going to stick around anyplace a long time judging them, if I don't like it I'll just keep moving. Was listening to Morningstar Fellowship this morning. The speaker made reference to Rick Joyner's claim that those who stay behind in support receive the same reward as those who are sent out. Now, why would he do that!? That's just lazy. Why reference the founder of the ministry instead of the Bible itself!? It's 1 Sam 30:24 It seems the Way still has this problem. They want to play Weekend at Bernie's with Dr Wierwille. I'm pretty sure in his best days Dr Wierwille would not have wanted that. The Word, The Word, The Word! He didn't teach VPW, VPW, VPW!

Do you think this applies to the Way International?

Within twi, there was very little, if any, "willingness to agree to disagree." With William Barlow, he shared that it was some fellow believers who complained about him (i.e., ratted him out) to leadership because they determined he was criticizing and mocking vpw (which he later explained to the leader how that was not what was actually happening). With the second quote of WordWolf (highlighting is mine), he laid out how fear based the control in twi was. Questioning twi doctrine was obviously included in these acts of disobedience and qualified you as not being faithful enough. So beware anyone reading this thread who is currently in twi or is considering becoming involved - listen to the tape. On the tape, one leader "seemed willing" to go through William's questions with him but before that could even begin to happen, Rivenbark was told about it, shut it down and kicked William out of the corps solely for this one reason. It seems most likely that twi knows they are not able to defend vpw's teachings when provided with scriptures. They nip it in the bud, accuse you of thinking you know more than weirwille (which happened to me as well and is considered blasphemy in their eyes), and remain faithful to the man who founded the ministry which now belongs to them.

For the purpose of a serious conversation: "In Essentials Unity, In Nonessentials Liberty, and In All Things Love." This is a widely referenced maxim. Christians have plenty of doctrinal conversations. When it reaches a limit, Christians just split and have two separate groups with the same essential message of Jesus the Christ. Some groups are better than others with regard to liberty. To refer to various sects as separate religions is intellectually dishonest, whatever passion you may feel.

WordWolf and Oldiesman - what I remember too.

Rev Joseph Yoo's take on unity, uniformity, and the glory of God. Facebook

I'll give it Waysider. Most people think of it as "Don't Worry 'Bout Me," but the actual title is "Opus 17." I'd be surprised if WW and Human haven't heard it. Valli (91) is still performing and can still hit the high notes. I saw him live last week. His current "Four Seasons" and the backup band were all much younger, of course. It was a great show. I had forgotten how many great songs they did. George

Interesting question. My first reaction was 'no' - but then I thought about how the Roman Catholic Church allowed the mass to be watered down around 1958 with Vatican 2. IMO the only real way to see this is to attend a traditional latin mass, then go to the new Novus Ordo mass... you will see what I mean. Imagine having a concept for hundreds of years then change it.. it's a topic that's quite debated in RC circles...

I'm pretty sure it's a Frankie Valli tune, but the title evades me.

Agree! And lest we forgot... if one DID prosper while not tithing, it only meant that the Devil wanted you to... LOL

Adrien Brody Paul Gleeson Jarod Leto Elias Koteas Ben Chaplin Tim Blake Nelson Thomas Jane George Clooney Woody Harrelson John Cusack John C Reilly John Savage Jim Caviezel Sean Penn Nick Nolte John Travolta Don Harvey

That's them.

This is a show that ran in syndication in the U.S. for a long time. In the U.K., it did the same, AFAIK. In the UK, it was a 1-hour show. In the US, they snipped each show in half to make 1/2 hour shows, which is how they always aired, AFAIK. It is next to impossible to find this show in syndication now. I strongly suspect that far too many people were offended by the show- or are predicted to be offended by the show, for it to run now. That's a little odd, because, on the whole, it wasn't a show that specifically went for "shocking" or "edgy." This show was a comedy- although it did include musical numbers. It occasionally spoofed something- like "Gone with the Wind," "Murder on the Orient Express," and "The 6 Million Dollar Man." In particular, I liked when they looked at alternate takes on "Little Bo Peep." One version was a TV detective story, with Bo Peep arriving with a report of the missing sheep, another was a Swedish movie where we only saw the parts that could be aired on TV, and they included a Shakepearean version as well. Although only the host's name was known by everyone, a few of the regular performers were known by name- because they often used their own names when performing skits.

I'll try the former. Bosnia, Herzegovina, Croatia, Serbia, Kosovo, Slovenia, Macedonia.

I'm stumped. I doubt I've ever heard it.

Old time posters will find this funny, but I agree with Oldiesman. (At least I agree with this last post!) The meaning of "household" was never exactly defined, but in practice, seemed to equate with being a Christian at all- because any act of disobedience to twi would threaten to put you out of "the household". Further, people like lcm were openly distainful of people leaving twi, and said they put themselves outside of God's protection and so on. Any time something bad happened to someone who left twi, it was ALWAYS "because they left the household." (Any time something bad happened to someone in twi, either they were blamed for not being faithful ENOUGH to twi, or the devil was going after them BECAUSE they were in twi.) And lcm was quite vocal about how God's blessings won't reach someone who isn't in lockstep with twi. There was a lengthy list of things which would result in a situation where "God won't even SPIT in your direction", most notably, tithing. lcm talked about God spitting in our direction a lot.

I can't even name a single GROUP which will allow any questioning of their dogmas. I have met Christians willing to agree to disagree, and to interact despite differences. They've been from different denominations, for that matter. (Not twi, mind you...)

People act is if TWI is the only organization that will not change their doctrine when confronted with scripture indicating possible error. Ask the new U.S. Pope Leo XIV to justify purgatory from the bible or praying to dead people to help their loved ones on earth? Or declaring using birth control is a sin? There are over 2,000 Christian religions today and ask anyone of them to show why your religious beliefs are wrong. They will come up some scripture that indicates their religion is right. About any belief in the world today can be justified using the bible. Can you name a religion that will allow any questioning of their dogmas?

dunno it.

Name the six republics that made up the former Soviet Federal Republic of Yugoslavia? Or, name which two movies that that actor Michael Caine won his two Best Supporting Oscars ?

I'm so glad/ that I'm part of/ the-fam-ily-of-God- Not so fast, my friend. What a gut punch. Thrown away so easily. And, the father, 5 kids, no possessions of his own! Wow! Obviously, some had more skin in the game than others of us. The gospel is like that. It spreads amidst guerilla warfare. Better not bitter. How glorious these survived with faith intact. Not VP's faith; not LCM's faith; not RR's; These with a faith of their own and flourishing. I think it's interesting to take note of the time of each person's story. It sounds like the current leadership renounces some of the practices coming from that era of leadership. I'm not saying it's clear skies, there still seems to be cultish denominationalism or sectarianism, if there is some difference between those two words. I just want to acknowledge whatever progress has been made and be open to fellowship and brotherhood to the degree that is possible.

Yes... important to do the works of faith in the household... Galatians 6:10 style... thank you.

I stumbled across this man, Rev Joseph Yoo, who speaks so much sense about the gospel. He did a four part series recently on Salvation. Here is part 4 of 4. Find the rest by googling his name.

"Garson, coffee"!!!

The first time I saw this performance I just freaked out, it's so good. Themes from "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly", and "Ecstasy of Gold".