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Good point. I delved into what I called "God's standard for giving," but I never got to the part of God's standard for getting. What to do with money collected from the church would make a great Doctrinal thread.

The reason for this collection in 2 Corinthians 8 is given in Romans 15. 25 but now, I am going to Jerusalem, serving the saints. 26 For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem. 27 For they were pleased to do so, and they are indebted to them. For if the Gentiles have shared in their spiritual things, they are indebted to do them a service also in material things. How does this compare to what twi does with their collections from the saints?

IOW, if the organization badgers you about how much you need to give them, it's a cult. BTW, Mormon churches do that too.

When we were in our teens, WordWolf once had a bunch of notes from which I used to study, and one of them was "Things in Which Christians Are to Abound," or something close to that. The list was believing, the Word, knowledge, diligence, love and grace. It was drawn from II Corinthians 8:7. It took me years to realize what II Corinthians 8 was doing. To really grasp it, you HAVE to let go of the tithe. Only then does the section make sense. A group of Christians was exceedingly generous to Paul, and he was using that group as an example to the Corinthians for how to approach giving. Their gift was both generous and entirely voluntary. The percentage was not discussed. And then v. 7 makes total sense. As you abound in one thing, abound in the other. A standard is being set. As you about in A, abound in F. As you abound in B, abound in F. As you abound in C, abound in F. It's not just a list of things in which we are to abound. It is a standard that is supposed to underscore our motivation to give. You call yourself a Christian who believes? Give accordingly! You call yourself a speaker of the Word? Give accordingly! You call yourself knowledgeable of the Word? GIve accordingly. You call yourself committed to the spread of the Word? Give accordingly. You say you love? Give accordingly. Our giving, according to the Bible, is to be motivated by these attributes. Not a percentage. A reflection of your commitment, of your dedication, of your seriousness about this whole Christian thing. The tithe is not a minimum or a maximum. It's not even a reference point. Abraham tithed ONE TIME, best as we can tell from scripture. No one told him to do it. No one asked him to do it. He wasn't setting a pattern. If he was, the pattern was this: YOU choose when to give. YOU choose who receives it. YOU choose how much. There is no place in scripture where ALL believers are instructed to tithe. It is simply NOT the big deal churches make it out to be. I've long forgotten my deep dive into tithing. But I do remember this much: believers should give, and give generously. NO ONE defines "generously" but you. Just don't be a hypocrite about it. When something's important to you, you invest in it.

Fifty Ways to Leave Your Lover (?) George

And it is very cold in space. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan Not sure of the other two. George

"The problem is all inside your head she said to me"

I've found three movies with this quote. I'll take either one. "Revenge is a meal best served cold"! Bragging rights is you can name two.

No.

Con Air? George

Human got five right, WW got four. (Jan and Dean were not in the first group.) The whole lineup: (they were inducted in alphabetical order) Chuck Berry, James Brown, Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, Fats Domino, The Everly Brothers, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard (Pettiman), and Elvis Presley. George

Adrien Brody Paul Gleeson Jarod Leto Elias Koteas Ben Chaplin Tim Blake Nelson Thomas Jane George Clooney Woody Harrelson John Cusack John C Reilly

Fats Domino Ray Charles Sam Cooke The Everly Brothers Chuck Berry

OK, taking a stab at this.....here's my best guess. Elvis Presley James Brown Little Richard Buddy Holly Jan & Dean

The duo counts as one name. If you don't know them, there are nine other choices. Give five. George

It'll be my wedding night. After all the years (and my engagement) that I lost to TWI. Walking back to happiness with a lovely kind man.

Well, I can tell you what I will be doing on Saturday night in exactly 15 weeks time. Walking Back To Happiness ~ Helen Shapiro

But we don't need to necessarily name that duo, do we George. Just give five names?

OK, that was a tough one. it was a V-2 rocket, in 1944. Let's try an easier one: The first ten inductees into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame were inducted on January 23, 1986. Nine were individual performers, and the other was a duo. Name FIVE of them. George

Adrien Brody Paul Gleeson Jarod Leto Elias Koteas Ben Chaplin Tim Blake Nelson Thomas Jane George Clooney Woody Harrelson

TWI's attitude to giving is so against what the Bible teaches and the way God operates that it is unrecognisable. And what they teach about tithing isn't recognisable either. To whom were the tithes given, tithes of what, where to be presented, and when. And why (that's a big one, and not one that TWI has ever touched on) (it's not what you might think). You can research it for yourself. It is absolutely wrong to be checking up on people's incomes to make sure they tithed/donated any money. It's between individuals and God. Here are the words of Jesus (yes, I know in the gospels, and only for our learning, hahahaha, as not part of the NT according to TWI) as recorded in Mt 6: when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Now just how private, how secret, is your giving supposed to be, if (hyperbolically) your left hand doesn't know what your right hand is doing? Your left hand can't know, but your twig leader can? Huh??? We were badly taught. But I do believe that God respects those who did give (even if from dishonest teaching).

WordWolf: twi keeps track of their members/"followers" and their tithes/money given under compulsion. Try giving less than 10% and see how long you go before someone starts giving you static. Ha! My fellowship commander was faithful to this practice, even though he renounced TWI for deviating from "the original" - the word as it was given to THE Man of God, victor p wierwille. (Bless his heart.) It had been said that my fellowship commander and his wife lived near the poverty line. They themselves never admitted this. Regardless, I always contributed generously to any social event at their house. (This is just my nature with anyone, and I was ridiculed for it.) If I asked what I could bring, they would answer, and I would provide plus plus - happily, it's just how I do it. Over time, with increasing frequency, I took on the role of host - cooking, cleaning, making cocktails, store runs - in THEIR house. (Later I suspected I was manipulated into this because of my generous nature.) Now, these parties were by invitation, but they were not optional. If they said what they needed or wanted, I enthusiastically fulfilled the request. And they were grateful, but not enthusiastically grateful. When it came to giving at fellowship, boy, oh, boy! I usually gave whatever cash I had on me, which wasn't much because who carries cash anymore. However, if I had 3 twenties, a fiver and three ones, I would only throw $8 in the horn. (If I had $60 on me, that money was likely already allocated for another purpose.) Somehow he knew. Probably because my then wife told him. Or maybe he knew exactly what to expect every week from the other regular attendees, as they always gave the same amount. Likely both are true. He never said anything to me directly, but the subsequent daily emails to "the family" and the next week's fellowship "teaching" were all about tithing, abundant sharing and II Corinthians 9:7. The passive-aggressive message to me was clear: I was not a cheerful giver, and God does not love that.

A very insightful post that demarcates the difference between what "the Word" says and the organizational practices, which is the STORY of how the Word is actually communicated by way of do as I say, not as I do.

Very recently (in March 2025, I believe) Leor Zmigrod published a book on The Ideological Brain: the Radical Science of Flexible Thinking. In general (so far) she addresses religious AND political thinking but doesn't suggest she favors one side or another. This book, IMO, is germane to this thread's discussion because IN PFLAP we were indoctrinated to think according to how Victor Wierwille taught the bible. In the nearly 40 years since I left TWI, I've changed how I think about both religious and political subjects and values. I will not reference any such subject as if I believe what I used to hold as true is particularly wrong, or even right or correct. But I do now hold that the entire notion of private interpretation of "God's Word" is inherently NOT valid because I believe humankind is unable to authoritatively make such pronouncements due to our inherent neurological, emotional, social or otherwise psychological limitation. Nevertheless, carry on with the discussion of TWIs view of private interpretation of the bible. Rather, my view is encapsuled in the wisdom (of Solomon?) in Proverbs 2:1-5.