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I should… I mean, I want to… I just can’t… People still call this schmuck “Dr.” Even John Schoenheit does. WITAF!?!

Not even close to what was "taught" in Christian Family and Sex. *Just spit in your hand*

Thank you for posting WordWolf. I think the paper is excellent; but was lacking some crucial reasons (perhaps even more compelling) why marriage should be treated as sacred and entirely inviolate. The following is from the catholic catechism. Maybe aspects of the following was said in the Christian Family teaching series or collateral readings at TWI but I don't remember: Marriage is a sacrament (a visible sign of an invisible grace) and treated as a sacred covenant between man and woman, established by Christ himself and intended for the good of the man and woman and for the procreation and education of children. So much more than only a social or legal agreement, it also signifies the union between Christ and the church wherein God's grace is present and active. It's also a covenant, a more profound and personal bond than only a contract. It involves a lifelong commitment of love, fidelity, and openness to children, imitating the relationship between Christ and the church. The couple's commitment to one another can be celebrated publicly by exchanging vows within a mass, by administering the sacrament to each other and through it, they receive more grace to live out the marital commitment as a sign of God's love in the world.

Helpless LA is fine, sunshine most the time and the feeling is laid back

Back in the U.S.S.R. There is a town in North Ontario with dream comfort memory to spare.

Indeed it did. That, and Tom Elder.

Major Tom Flew in from Miami Beach, BOAC didn't get to bed last night

Yes. I assume Matt Helm gave it away. George

Thumbs up for a perfect segue. (I'm gonna pass, though. I've been hogging them lately.)

Space Oddity "Four, three, two, one, earth below us"

T-bone's posts above were long so I edited them to get to the pajama party. (You can search "pajama" and his full posts come up quickly.)

Thankx

Looking back on my last post above, I did translate what you had said in an amplified way which was, I'm sure, more harsher than what you were intending. I was being a bit arrogant and condescending . I'm sorry for this. I'd like to reply differently by saying "I think it is bewildering that God would possibly leave believers guessing/wondering/being worried/fearful about whether they will go to a place called heaven or a placed called hell for all eternity. Also, I understand that you don't have an answer to my question. No one does, so I suppose that makes it a rhetorical one. You're right, the Ford cannot explain Henry just as people, on their own, cannot explain what God means when he says something. I think it is up to him, though, to clearly define his will so as to remove all doubt as to whether once saved/always saved or staying faithful to be saved is correct. This is one reason I became skeptical of the existence of an omnipotent and omniscient god.

T-Bone's mentioned it a number of times.

I think the question was rhetorical.

I completely agree that the grooming done and advances made on believers were fruit of vp's rotten tree which was rooted in his deviant interpretation of verses he'd cherry picked. I know of a top twi leader who had stopped abusing one female by saying he wasn't sure that what "they" were doing was biblically correct solely as an excuse so he could start up with another female. In an attempt to normalize his lax/corrupted views on things as you mentioned above, I remember reading from a poster here how vp would have pajama gatherings where teens were present and his behavior at times became inappropriate. I'll try to find the post.

How should i know? You're asking the Ford to explain Henry.

You are correct. The catholic church doctrine won't change or change easily, but any one of us can go to the traditional mass and worship God and enjoy and cherish the experience in the process. That's where I'm at right now. They don't know that silent SIT is in play with one of their parishoners...

"Like their leader VP, men (and some women) used those reasons above to get what they wanted leaving behind darkness and brokenness. " Now, now, "credit" where "credit" is due. (Or, possibly give "the devil" his due.) That sounded almost coincidental that vpw and some of his cadre likewise did those evil deeds. Let's be more specific, and more honest, about it. vpw was the originator. He set about to commit such sinful, criminal, and evil actions. Although it's possible that someone may have been interested in the cadre because of that, more likely they were all brought in the way lcm was brought in. vpw groomed lcm to commit those kinds of things. He told him all kinds of things, some of which we've heard. He told him- on the subject of fidelity in marriage- that the married lcm "was going to have to loosen up on those sorts of things if he wants to lead God's people." Since vpw had previously convinced lcm that vpw had an inside track on what God Almighty thought and wanted, that left lcm trying to accept that God Almighty wanted him to cheat on his own wife. And so on. vpw set up his network to target women, and when he set up that network, he groomed a number of people around him to accept or embrace that kind of thinking. That's why they were willing to help vpw rape and molest and drug the women that he did those things to. I mean, it wasn't a one-night, one conversation thing, he spent months carefully grooming and indoctrinating his inner circle so that there was a network of people close to him that would accept that and help him. Not everyone was indoctrinated this way. vpw worked hard at this, possibly harder than at anything else he did. He would find a moment to talk to only one person. He would make a small comment to them, and monitor their reaction. If they reacted in a godly fashion, he backed off and didn't bring it up again. We saw that with J1m D00p. When vpw spoke to him alone in a car, vpw tried to tell him that God Almighty was fine with orgies. J1m was resistant and revolted by the suggestion, and later convinced himself that, somehow, he misunderstood what happened, that he couldn't possibly have heard vpw say what he had heard vpw say. After that, vpw fine-tuned his approach. That was too heavy-handed and abrupt. So, he made smaller comments, less abrupt. He changed the "temperature" around him, so that discussions about sex weren't quite so out of place. Then he could make a single comment and dismiss it later as a misunderstanding if it went awry. AFAIK, Ralph D never recounted such an incident... and I doubt he was left out. I think he was approached like everyone else, but when vpw baited the hook, RD didn't take the bait- he wasn't immoral and wasn't going to be. So, vpw just dropped a passing comment and went about his business- but made a mental note to keep RD well away from the thick of things, and not to approach RD again. Over time, vpw had a list of people around him who were receptive and groomed- every time, a little further, a little further. He also had a list of people to keep clear of his sex maniac operation- people who could spoil things and ruin his well-organized sin machine after all the trouble he went through to set it up. But they had their uses also- mainly, their clean-cut natures were "evidence" that nothing untoward could be happening around vpw. After all, in public, he said nothing in favor of it, and there were moral, godly people around him, so they would have blown the whistle on him. So, yes, the comments in the appendices started with vpw. As with anything else in twi, some people just parroted his phrases without ever stopping to question whether or not they were correct, godly or right- or to think at all, for that matter. Whenever we saw multiple people parroting the same error-ridden sentences, it was as good as having vpw's initials or signature on the phrase, endorsing and recommending it all around.

Like their leader VP, men (and some women) used those reasons above to get what they wanted leaving behind darkness and brokenness. I saw the darkness, I saw the darkness No more safety, no more light Now I’m so shameful, no trusting in sight Thanks to him, I saw the darkness

Do you mean this one?

Reminds me of that song "I saw the darkness..."