Problem is, my father thought that Franklin Roosevelt was the greatest human being to ever draw breath.
He told me so many times.
My mother, OTOH, thought that Roosevelt was just about the spawn of Satan, and was equally vociferous in her condemnation of him.
What to do, who to believe? Gee, maybe, bright lad that I was, I could do a little reading and find out for myself, and develop an opinion all on my own, just like a big boy. You might try that out yourself, cmck.
Sooner or later you're gonna haveto develop the ability to think all on your own.
There are several people who post on GSC who worked at HQ when vpw was still alive. They said they never had any problems with him. They also said they were treated with respect by him. But those same people don't disregard those who had bad experiences with vpw. I don't either. What reason do they have to lie about him? It doesn't profit them anything. People were hurt very badly by that man in the name of God. The Word was twisted to accommodate his lusts.
I hope you understand better. Maybe you should start a thread about people's personal experiences with vpw. Your eyes might get opened.
Sooner or later you're gonna have to develop the ability to think all on your own.
I disagree ... plenty of people live a full and happy life without ever being burdened with thinking for themselves ... life may actually be easier that way .. for those that can live under the wings of those that have fought and maybe died for that sort of freedom ... sorry for interjecting ...
Mark, I used to think that way too. I now think God nor His Word ever set vp free from his "old man" and that part is the shame of it all.
I also believe (not intending to invoke Godwin's law here) that Hitler, Pol Pot, and Mao were all sincere, as well. At least in the beginning.
In other words, at least in the beginning, I think he believed his own stuff.
That is not to say that by the time PFAL film came out and later that he wasn't just perpetuating the fraud that it was, knowing full well it was a fraud.
Problem is, my father thought that Franklin Roosevelt was the greatest human being to ever draw breath.
He told me so many times.
My mother, OTOH, thought that Roosevelt was just about the spawn of Satan, and was equally vociferous in her condemnation of him.
What to do, who to believe? Gee, maybe, bright lad that I was, I could do a little reading and find out for myself, and develop an opinion all on my own, just like a big boy. You might try that out yourself, cmck.
Sooner or later you're gonna haveto develop the ability to think all on your own.
You know what I think is wrong everyone that got fired by The Way coming on here and making comments on how bad Dr.Wierwille taught. Sooner or later you should think on your own and stop reading the post here and making wrong comments. (oh by the way I am the dad)
I loved my dad, but he was a dyed in the wool democrat/union man who thought FDR was the best thing since sliced bread.
I loved my dad and honor his memory and always speak good of him to my sons.
I met VPW once at the 40th Anniversary festivities in Atlanta back in '82. We were alone in the "House of His Healing Presence" they set up at the hotel. He was friendly to me, quite affable, pleasant and seemed sincerely interested in my thoughts and opinions about some things. I thought him to be a pleasant and warm individual.
So do I disbelieve and discount some of the things I've read from Excie? Rascal? Many others?
NOT FOR A MINUTE!!!!!
They knew him better than I did...they were familiar...I wasn't familiar, I was just some guy he met one time and it was in his best interest to be nice to somebody he didn't know who had obviously voluntarily paid their money to come adore him.
Just because he was nice to some folks doesn't mean anything. Charles Manson and Jeffery Dahmer were nice, too...when it served their purpose or else they couldn't have done the things they did.
I loved my dad and honor his memory and some wisdom he passed along to me was never believe ANYTHING you hear and only believe half of what you see. That has served me very well over the years. VERY well, indeed.
You know what I think is wrong everyone that got fired by The Way coming on here and making comments on how bad Dr.Wierwille taught. Sooner or later you should think on your own and stop reading the post here and making wrong comments. (oh by the way I am the dad)
Ken
First, "Ken"...I saw your initial post before you edited it. What did you mean by "I went to The Way and graduated in 1985"?
Second, your writing style, as little of it as I have seen, is remarkably like your son's.
Now, to address your "points", such as they are.
You know what I think is wrong everyone that got fired by The Way...
Fired by The Way? What are you talking about? People here left TWI for a variety of reasons, very, very few left because they were fired. But if you were involved in The Way back in the 80's, you'd know that.
...coming on here and making comments on how bad Dr.Wierwille taught.
Granted, some of the comments are reflexive, based on bad experiences, but a great number of us believe the way we do about Mr. Wierwille's "teachings" because we have examined them and found them wanting.
Sooner or later you should think on your own ...
Most of us are here because we thought and continue to think on our own. We have come to a variety of points of view regarding The Way, Wierwille, PFAL, and even the bible.
...and stop reading the post here and making wrong comments
Agree or disagree, we read the posts here, and post our own, because that is what we have freely decided to do. Wrong comments? Some of the comments are just opinions, but many are amply documented, often from The Way's publications.
You know what I think is wrong everyone that got fired by The Way coming on here and making comments on how bad Dr.Wierwille taught. Sooner or later you should think on your own and stop reading the post here and making wrong comments. (oh by the way I am the dad)
Ken
Ken,
Welcome to gsc.
I was never an employee of TWI, Inc.
I was never fired.
I was not M&A'd.
I left, voluntarily, and without notice to anybody, in 1989.
I held onto TWI theology for about 7 years after that point (I thought it was a good thing that went bad). I started questioning TWI theology in 1996. I abandoned TWI theology in 1999. I had seen a little bit of anti-TWI stuff by that time, but hadn't seen other than the usual anti-cult garbage until after that point -- and so really was confirmed in the fact that it had gone bad under LCM. So I, without influence of GSC or Waydale, etc., figured it out on my own (with the assistance of the Holy Spirit).
So your premise is in error.
But you do sound like a good dad who's trying to do the best for his kid. So:
Stick around -- get your own handle -- and feel free to show me where I'm wrong down in the doctrinal basement!
Me no terminated. Didn't get fired. Left on my own two feet, brain and spirit intact. Still are, just checked.
But -
I'm going to have to dive in here and get my butt-whuppin' cuz I got one comin', so slap my hiney and call me Judy, but...
I "believe" - no I think, I like that word more better - that there was always good in the Way at every point. Okay, there were some valleys, flooded valley-times, yes. Dips in the cycle that would give Lance Armstrong a stiff neck. But good was there. Why what good was that, asked Snorky as Tink sat down?
I walked away with this in mind and hand - that one thing I would always have would be the people I knew and worked with, to carry in heart and mind, forever. Or at least until I got some better friends. Hasn't happened. As gooder as the oldies okay, but no better.
There were some of the nicest, most caring, hardest working, understanding, sharing, funny people I've ever known. People there for whatever reasons - "the truth", to "serve God", or just to just get out of the dammed storm of the world for awhile and not get their butts kicked everytime they turned around....y'know, "decent folks". Some of you. ALL of you, right? GS has all the good ones, we know that. :) You were there, you were doing whatever it was you were doing and actually felt that you were making something happen, something good.
So now if it all turns out to be a pipedream and a colossal waste of precious time, I maintain that you and I still have what we brought to the table and what we invested is worth a lot. Our lives, our time, our work, our love. Maybe it would have been better spent somewhere else - but it wasn't totally wasted becasuse life of any kind, for even a moment, is the most precious thing we can have. When it's all gone, there ain' no more.
That's not to be taken lightly. In this graceless world we live in, there was grace in the people I knew, if only for a time. Some simple honor and dignity. Maybe we swum against the tide and didn't know we going to get swept out to the deep till it happened - but if you're still here, congrats. Everyday we wake up and swear at the alarm clock is a GOOD day.
Sorry for getting schmatzy but for me - that's a big part of the good. People were trying to take what they were learning and live it. I have respect for that today.
Ken, I also never was employed or ordained by The Way International. I left in 1979, after having a 10% collapsed lung and none of any TWI ministers prayed or Spoke in Tongues for my health or received revelation about my condition( and at that time I still was in good standing with the ministry), but no one visited me while I was in the hospital recovering, except clergy from other denominations who were friends of my father, a Lutheran pastor. So in my hour of need, guess who was more Christ-like and showed greater renewed mind? You are right, those damnable clergy from denominations, Not TWI. Also, have you your wife or son ever checked out other Christian groups, or read Frank Mead's book Handbook of Denominations in the United State and Canada from Abingdon/Cokesbury Publishers(Nashville/United Methodist)? Get information that is reliable before making wild, erroneous accusations.
Yeah, that's what I want to know, as well as what does "I went to The Way" mean? It was in the second posted that allegedly was by ckmkeon's father, Ken, before it was edited, I caught it before he edited it.
Yeah, that's what I want to know, as well as what does "I went to The Way" mean? It was in the second posted that allegedly was by ckmkeon's father, Ken, before it was edited, I caught it before he edited it.
He went to the Way and recieved an associate degree I believe that is what he meant
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
6
11
6
20
Popular Days
Feb 26
45
Feb 27
26
Mar 8
12
Mar 11
2
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 6 posts
Oakspear 11 posts
markomalley 6 posts
ckmkeon 20 posts
Popular Days
Feb 26 2006
45 posts
Feb 27 2006
26 posts
Mar 8 2006
12 posts
Mar 11 2006
2 posts
George Aar
Well, I love and am loyal to my parents as well.
Problem is, my father thought that Franklin Roosevelt was the greatest human being to ever draw breath.
He told me so many times.
My mother, OTOH, thought that Roosevelt was just about the spawn of Satan, and was equally vociferous in her condemnation of him.
What to do, who to believe? Gee, maybe, bright lad that I was, I could do a little reading and find out for myself, and develop an opinion all on my own, just like a big boy. You might try that out yourself, cmck.
Sooner or later you're gonna haveto develop the ability to think all on your own.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
ckmkeon,
There are several people who post on GSC who worked at HQ when vpw was still alive. They said they never had any problems with him. They also said they were treated with respect by him. But those same people don't disregard those who had bad experiences with vpw. I don't either. What reason do they have to lie about him? It doesn't profit them anything. People were hurt very badly by that man in the name of God. The Word was twisted to accommodate his lusts.
I hope you understand better. Maybe you should start a thread about people's personal experiences with vpw. Your eyes might get opened.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rhino
I disagree ... plenty of people live a full and happy life without ever being burdened with thinking for themselves ... life may actually be easier that way .. for those that can live under the wings of those that have fought and maybe died for that sort of freedom ... sorry for interjecting ...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
markomalley
I also believe (not intending to invoke Godwin's law here) that Hitler, Pol Pot, and Mao were all sincere, as well. At least in the beginning.
In other words, at least in the beginning, I think he believed his own stuff.
That is not to say that by the time PFAL film came out and later that he wasn't just perpetuating the fraud that it was, knowing full well it was a fraud.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ckmkeon
Yeah I am reading the post now
Ken
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ckmkeon
You know what I think is wrong everyone that got fired by The Way coming on here and making comments on how bad Dr.Wierwille taught. Sooner or later you should think on your own and stop reading the post here and making wrong comments. (oh by the way I am the dad)
Ken
Edited by ckmkeonLink to comment
Share on other sites
Ron G.
I loved my dad, but he was a dyed in the wool democrat/union man who thought FDR was the best thing since sliced bread.
I loved my dad and honor his memory and always speak good of him to my sons.
I met VPW once at the 40th Anniversary festivities in Atlanta back in '82. We were alone in the "House of His Healing Presence" they set up at the hotel. He was friendly to me, quite affable, pleasant and seemed sincerely interested in my thoughts and opinions about some things. I thought him to be a pleasant and warm individual.
So do I disbelieve and discount some of the things I've read from Excie? Rascal? Many others?
NOT FOR A MINUTE!!!!!
They knew him better than I did...they were familiar...I wasn't familiar, I was just some guy he met one time and it was in his best interest to be nice to somebody he didn't know who had obviously voluntarily paid their money to come adore him.
Just because he was nice to some folks doesn't mean anything. Charles Manson and Jeffery Dahmer were nice, too...when it served their purpose or else they couldn't have done the things they did.
I loved my dad and honor his memory and some wisdom he passed along to me was never believe ANYTHING you hear and only believe half of what you see. That has served me very well over the years. VERY well, indeed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Second, your writing style, as little of it as I have seen, is remarkably like your son's.
Now, to address your "points", such as they are.
Fired by The Way? What are you talking about? People here left TWI for a variety of reasons, very, very few left because they were fired. But if you were involved in The Way back in the 80's, you'd know that.Granted, some of the comments are reflexive, based on bad experiences, but a great number of us believe the way we do about Mr. Wierwille's "teachings" because we have examined them and found them wanting.Most of us are here because we thought and continue to think on our own. We have come to a variety of points of view regarding The Way, Wierwille, PFAL, and even the bible. Agree or disagree, we read the posts here, and post our own, because that is what we have freely decided to do. Wrong comments? Some of the comments are just opinions, but many are amply documented, often from The Way's publications. :blink: Edited by OakspearLink to comment
Share on other sites
markomalley
Ken,
Welcome to gsc.
I was never an employee of TWI, Inc.
I was never fired.
I was not M&A'd.
I left, voluntarily, and without notice to anybody, in 1989.
I held onto TWI theology for about 7 years after that point (I thought it was a good thing that went bad). I started questioning TWI theology in 1996. I abandoned TWI theology in 1999. I had seen a little bit of anti-TWI stuff by that time, but hadn't seen other than the usual anti-cult garbage until after that point -- and so really was confirmed in the fact that it had gone bad under LCM. So I, without influence of GSC or Waydale, etc., figured it out on my own (with the assistance of the Holy Spirit).
So your premise is in error.
But you do sound like a good dad who's trying to do the best for his kid. So:
Stick around -- get your own handle -- and feel free to show me where I'm wrong down in the doctrinal basement!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ckmkeon
He is going to get is own "account here" soon I just thought he colud use mine for a while
CK
Link to comment
Share on other sites
shazdancer
Troll alert....
Thanks for spotting it, Oak.
Regards,
Shaz
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
Me no terminated. Didn't get fired. Left on my own two feet, brain and spirit intact. Still are, just checked.
But -
I'm going to have to dive in here and get my butt-whuppin' cuz I got one comin', so slap my hiney and call me Judy, but...
I "believe" - no I think, I like that word more better - that there was always good in the Way at every point. Okay, there were some valleys, flooded valley-times, yes. Dips in the cycle that would give Lance Armstrong a stiff neck. But good was there. Why what good was that, asked Snorky as Tink sat down?
I walked away with this in mind and hand - that one thing I would always have would be the people I knew and worked with, to carry in heart and mind, forever. Or at least until I got some better friends. Hasn't happened. As gooder as the oldies okay, but no better.
There were some of the nicest, most caring, hardest working, understanding, sharing, funny people I've ever known. People there for whatever reasons - "the truth", to "serve God", or just to just get out of the dammed storm of the world for awhile and not get their butts kicked everytime they turned around....y'know, "decent folks". Some of you. ALL of you, right? GS has all the good ones, we know that. :) You were there, you were doing whatever it was you were doing and actually felt that you were making something happen, something good.
So now if it all turns out to be a pipedream and a colossal waste of precious time, I maintain that you and I still have what we brought to the table and what we invested is worth a lot. Our lives, our time, our work, our love. Maybe it would have been better spent somewhere else - but it wasn't totally wasted becasuse life of any kind, for even a moment, is the most precious thing we can have. When it's all gone, there ain' no more.
That's not to be taken lightly. In this graceless world we live in, there was grace in the people I knew, if only for a time. Some simple honor and dignity. Maybe we swum against the tide and didn't know we going to get swept out to the deep till it happened - but if you're still here, congrats. Everyday we wake up and swear at the alarm clock is a GOOD day.
Sorry for getting schmatzy but for me - that's a big part of the good. People were trying to take what they were learning and live it. I have respect for that today.
Edited by socksLink to comment
Share on other sites
topoftheworld
"I trust my parents over everone here."
Then why are you here?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ckmkeon
I was wondering that myself
CK
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Ken, I also never was employed or ordained by The Way International. I left in 1979, after having a 10% collapsed lung and none of any TWI ministers prayed or Spoke in Tongues for my health or received revelation about my condition( and at that time I still was in good standing with the ministry), but no one visited me while I was in the hospital recovering, except clergy from other denominations who were friends of my father, a Lutheran pastor. So in my hour of need, guess who was more Christ-like and showed greater renewed mind? You are right, those damnable clergy from denominations, Not TWI. Also, have you your wife or son ever checked out other Christian groups, or read Frank Mead's book Handbook of Denominations in the United State and Canada from Abingdon/Cokesbury Publishers(Nashville/United Methodist)? Get information that is reliable before making wild, erroneous accusations.
Edited by Thomas Loy BumgarnerLink to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
So, ckmkeon, what did your "dad" mean by that before "he" edited it out?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Graduated?? from what??
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ckmkeon
He went to the Way and recieved an associate degree I believe that is what he meant
ck
Link to comment
Share on other sites
topoftheworld
He went-where? The Bookstore? The Way Woods? The OSC? Where, oh where, did he WENT?
You "believe" that is what he meant? Don't you all talk?
He graduated from the Way in 85. Hemm...can you be more specific? What was his "status" upon graduation?
He saw VPW once a month? Traveled to Ohio every month, did he? Or did VPW just happen to pass thru?
Sorry I have so many questions: just would like to understand you more, CK.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ckmkeon
First he did PFAL, Home studies, Intermediate, Advanced classes and graduated with a associate in Theology
He did WOW in Miami, He lived in Rome city and did his advanced class in Emporia KS. I'm not sure of his status.
ck
Link to comment
Share on other sites
George Aar
Socks,
"so slap my hiney and call me Judy"
You tease...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ckmkeon
Thats what I thought
ck
Link to comment
Share on other sites
topoftheworld
Family Corps?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.