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OldSkool & Waysider thanks for your thoughtful posts! OldSkool, I’ve always got into doing arrangements too. Before TWI, besides originals I’d get into adapting a composition with different instruments or time signatures. For instance, I orchestrated Had to Cry Today by Blind Faith into a peppy Jazzy instrumental featuring the flute. It sounded so different from the original - folks would often compliment the band on our creativity - but I'd always fess up and tell them it's my arrangement of Had To Cry Today. It hits home what you said about it being hard enough for an artist to share what they make. Besides criticism – I think there also can be the temptation to cater to fan’s expectations – instead of trying out something new that is very different from what you did before…instead of being creative one stays repetitive and sticks to proven formulas… ~ ~ ~ ~ hey, to end on a high note I still goof around on the bass and compose too – fun little hobby, that keeps me amused and out of trouble. I have a Behringer 8 channel mixer . I plug my bass into one input and earphone cable my iPhone music into another input – with headphones I can mix the two just right so I can play along with my favorite tunes or figure out the bass line to a song I want to learn. I also have a Korg D3200 32-Track Digital Recording Studio which allows me to record multiple tracks – so I can add keyboards, “drums” and other instruments with my nifty cheapo Casio CTK-431 electronic keyboard…I work those keys just like I do on a typewriter – I hunt-and-peck. Waysider, maybe you’re the lyricist I never had. Thinking of just a few of the many songwriter collaborations I’ve admired (Burt Bacharach/Hal David, Lennon & McCartney, Elton John/Bernie Taupin, Jack Bruce/Pete Brown) my interest is often irresistibly drawn to deconstructing how the song was made – what came first the chicken or the egg? On really good songs – the mesh of music and lyrics seems seamless to me…I’m happy just making melodies, rhythms, and moods – maybe I’m not so much a frustrated poet but in need of an articulate collaborator. I really appreciate your openness and honesty – when you said you found other outlets to express yourself, I think Grease Spot is one of them – and I really admire your work. You communicate ideas and feelings so succinctly – it gives me a standard to shoot for…someday to the relief of others I might get there ...seriously though I find Grease Spot is great for me to learn how to better express myself too. Not that I want to write the perfect lyrics to a tune – but just get better at what I want to say when exchanging ideas. Okay – back to the main topic Holy crap! I listened to Rod Stewart’s tune and then relistened to TWI’s family video – and you’re right VERY SIMILAR in riffs, tempo, phrasing…and now it’s driving me crazy – the tune is starting to remind me of another song – just can’t place it – not a genre I’m familiar with – maybe 80’s British group – I asked Tonto to give a listen and she said it had an 80’s British vibe. I watched it again on You Tube and noticed the comment section is turned off…don’t know if there’s anything to that – but I’m always leery of movies that are not released for early viewing for movie critics. Do the producers have little confidence in the film? In an film product placement is important – and I noticed several times you get a clear shot of the PFAL books on a shelf in the background…the only thing missing was a picture of wierwille on the wall…hmmmm…makes me think of a British tune – Daddy Wasn’t There…listen to this tune about the 2:38 mark Austin refers to deadbeat dads – yeah “our father in da verd” might fit that description – deadbeat dad – a father who neglects his parental responsibilities to the extent of evading, even court-ordered child support obligations or custody arrangements…anyway enjoy this video:

"Maybe", he said.

Welcome to Grease Spot Café, Cheri ! Thanks for sharing…your post is open and honest…I think I might relate to what you said about it getting lonely not having people that are like minded around…but I will also add that since I left in ’86, I’ve experienced some intersocial "adjustments". Without the mental/emotional/busy involvement strain and drain of TWI, I’ve been able to devote much overdue attention to my wife and kids…family life is sweet - it's a shame it was given a low priority in TWI. …since I’ve joined Grease Spot in 2006 I’ve been pleasantly surprised to find some “kindred spirits”...a lot of friendly folks…some compatible with my take on TWI and even those who disagree are cool with the fact that we can’t be like-minded on everything…I think you might find there’s a lot more genuine love, sympathy and empathy in this little corner of cyberspace than in all of past or present TWI…In my humble opinion, it seems Grease Spotters are like-minded on at least one of the most important aspects/benefits of leaving a harmful and controlling cult – freedom to think and choose your own path. I wish you the best on your journey and look forward to other stuff you might choose to share with us.

After I had been out for a while, it occurred to me that nobody even noticed I was gone. So much for "We sure do love you.".

I grew up in TWI. My folks took PFAL in the 70s and met each other afterwards, they will die Wayfers. They worked with leadership to prevent my leaving TWI. I was married to someone who had a similar, less severe, situation. I know everyone in a cult knows they are in a cult. Like drugs or alcohol, they are in a cult to hide. They know what they are doing is wrong. Their family members have pointed it out for decades. They argue in circles. I know the cruelest people are the family. I know it's all crabs in a bucket. You'll find folks raised in other cults like JWs have similar experiences. It's not sunshine and rainbows when you leave. You won't die from it. The best thing you can do sometimes is cut the cord and go no contact for a long period of time and change yourself. They won't care why.

Welcome to Grease Spot Café, caribbean88 ! I completely understand your reluctance to hear from anyone recommending you turn to the Bible or pray. So I’ll just tell you some things that helped me and you can do what you want with the info. In my opinion, a difference between your experience and mine is the difference between being a kid raised in TWI (you) and being a parent raising a kid in TWI (me). Because The Way International’s dogma held such a high priority in most followers’ minds, I tend to think in some ways there was a weird convergence…or perhaps an overshadowing influence that resulted in parents interacting with their kids as a reflection of how the parents interacted with TWI-leadership. Metaphorically, TWI was like overbearing parents. Parents were expected to toe the line (accept the authority, policies, principles of TWI) and were also expected to raise their kids in that same authoritarian manner…One of the ways TWI’s authority was enforced – or rather we were pressured to submit to it - was by their use of fear and intimidation ... we feared TWI-leadership! we followed the rules...no one wanted to be publicly shamed...berated...told that they failed God...told we're sitting ducks for "the Adversary" to tear us apart...doomed to oblivion. As a former follower of TWI, I believe an alarming aspect of our fascination with demonology is the amount of control it affords cult-leaders. They elevate consequences for disobedience to the most frightening level. TWI-leadership used the fear of devil spirits, fear of getting possessed and fear of the power and influence exercised by those supposedly “born of the seed of the serpent” the way some parents use the boogeyman to frighten their kids into parental-approved behavior. To not follow TWI-guidelines or even worse to recklessly oppose TWI-leadership is to risk punishment from Satan’s minions. For brevity’s sake here, sometime you might want to check out a post I made in > Undertow - Escaping from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International that gets into the similarities of a harmful and controlling cult and authoritarian parenting and I also reference an article on why authoritarians (like TWI) love religion. While I’m on the topic of TWI’s fascination with demonology, I want to briefly mention one more post I made - you can look at it some other time at your convenience … …this post was a culmination of looking at other perspectives on demonology from non-TWI sources…Christian and secular…so not just biblical but also some psychological aspects - it’s on a thread in doctrinal VPW Loaded with demons, LCM Angry at Gay believer anonymously requested prayer and don’t let the thread title scare you - I think the person who titled that thread still had some of that TWI-preoccupation with Satan and demons…the information I related in that post actually put my mind at ease…and I’ve come to the opinion that top TWI-leadership was not necessarily possessed but more like demonically oppressed and influenced than they or us followers would care to admit (again if you read my post in the VPW Loaded with demons thread you'll understand the nuance of being tempted, oppressed or influenced by demons versus being possessed). …never mind being afraid of being harmed by demons if you disobey TWI-leadership…I had discovered the real enemy…and it was certain TWI-leadership…figuratively I know we all have our “inner demons” – personal inner struggles – and I’m not playing the prophet or saying I got revelation on who is possessed or demonized…I’m just saying that we as little old believers in TWI got hoodwinked by wierwille and company – and they had no business leading others when they were so screwed up! And again to be clear - I'm not suggesting any top leadership was out and out possessed. But their words and actions in public and private leads me to believe many were seriously tempted, influenced and oppressed by demons...and we all let them lead us...let them influence us... and we were warned Matthew 7 Matthew 23 II Peter 2 okay, no more Scripture I suggest you work out what YOU need to think about and do for your own good first – at least to the point where you can make more sense of what happened to you – before you seriously try reaching out to those still in TWI. About 10 years after I left TWI, I found a cool book Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David D. Burns - that gets into cognitive therapy – it coincided with me starting to see a psychiatrist. I had some personal issues before I joined TWI…and they didn’t mix too well with the TWI-mindset and lifestyle. I occasionally review the book – lots of good ideas and strategies to combat the cognitive dissonance that permeates the TWI-mindset. Feel free to private message me if you want to talk about anything further.

You might find some useful information here: Cult Info Since 1979 (icsahome.com) It's a link from former Wayfer Charlene Edge, who's now well and truly over her servitude to TWI (about which she wrote a "memoir"). You will get through this. Find some good (but non-pushy) wise and patient friends with whom you can be vulnerable about these things. It will take you time and you need some people to hold you safe. Keep safe. You may need to add to or change your group of supportive friends as your head clears. You may not like this, but I found safety in a church. But it took 10 or 12 years in the wilderness, or more, rather - at the bottom of a dismal dank well of misery - to get me to that church. Because I was afraid of church people! These people just quietly made space for me, asked no questions, were just there. Years later, one, now a close friend, told me they wondered what I was, what had happened, because I was quite weird to start with. To this day, though, nobody has ever asked me about why I was weird or about my experience in an abusive organisation. They just don't know, because I never told them. Maybe I will one day; maybe not. They were there for me. That's what mattered. I get a sense that you may be male, so you may find it hard to talk about your experiences. If you're female, you might be better at expressing what's going on in your head.

If/when you can, find a different therapist and ask detailed questions about how the person has been able to help individuals. As for me, books written by the late Dr M Scott Peck were my starting point. The Road Less Traveled showed me how to begin (re)evaluating my experiences and thinking. Stoic Philosophy can be helpful too. Much more recently (still seeking to learn/grow) I've found a trilogy of books by Ryan Holiday very helpful. The Obstacle is the Way; Stillness is the Key; and Ego is the Enemy. You might be able to find those books in your local public library. It may or may not be obvious to you, but a supportive social support system (i.e. friends) is crucial for recovery. Humans are inherently social. TWI's claim is accuracy of God's Word. But the real draw is a tribal sense of belonging. My hope and prayer for you is a rewarding journey of recovery.

Just saw a movie which I accessed through Youtube called "Holy Hell." I think you have to pay for it, but it also is about a cult and people in it and people that left it. Just one of many many stories of cult members and how they left. Now that I'm out of TWI, I can see so many similarities among ex-TWI and other ex-cult members. Leah Remani's series on Scientology is also excellent. And documentaries about Heaven's Gate. on and on. We are not alone.

Thanks Twinky & Bolshevik – great video! I emailed that link to myself cuz I want to watch it a few more times…I like when someone walks me through their thinking process and I get to see the variety in experiences, observations, factors in evaluating one’s involvement...and there’s something else – hearing them IDENTIFY issues. Made me think of the therapeutic value of Grease Spot Café – I think the potential for healing and freedom is in reengaging our cognitive skills when reflecting on the past and the pain, the good and the bad – as we recognize or ascertain what makes someone or something different…understanding the crux of the matter…what is the stuff that makes something/someone either good or bad or a combination of the two. That’s a toughie when you’re coming out of a pseudo-Christian harmful and controlling cult – to heal and move on we must learn to differentiate. Differentiate some things: Can you identify a harmful and controlling cult’s toxic infusions and insidious twists to the theory and practice of the Christian faith? When I took PFAL back in 1974 – at the time, I thought it was the greatest thing in the world – cuz it got into how the Bible was written and how to interpret it. I still appreciate the class cuz it demystified the Bible for me – being raised Roman Catholic, I looked at a lot of the Bible as incomprehensible, ancient and weird. For as much as you hear me criticize wierwille and PFAL on Grease Spot that probably seems odd – but wierwille pointed me in a particular direction of developing a faith I grew up in...He got me started on the road to deep Bible study, checking out systematic theology and hermeneutics and even sparking an interest in philosophy of religion… BUT … when I left in ’86 – over disillusionments and disappointments that had been brewing for a long time – I had one of those “differentiating moments” where I thought to myself “I can do better myself at personal Bible study and living the Christian lifestyle than what TWI tried show me.” Discern the wolves from deceived sheep: In a pseudo-Christian harmful and controlling cult like The Way International – there is a complicated blend of good people, bad people, and good people gone bad…some good people don’t realize they’re helping the bad people…in a cult you have the predator, the victim, and the facilitator. I was a facilitator – I made it easier for TWI to exploit others not only by my financial support but also by trying to be a good sales-rep for the PFAL class…I honestly thought it would help people…I suppose you could have predator/facilitator folks – who either turned bad or found an organization where their own moral depravity fit right in. Not talking about judging intentions here – I’m talking about judging what people DO. Actions speak louder than words. Another thing about that YouTube video Do All Ex-Cult Members Think the same – I like the fluidity some folks exemplified – being flexible to move around on the spectrum…I think that’s realistic - because as time goes by - we change – we grow – we heal – we gain a new perspective…In my book, it’s okay if you’re a PFAL-fan, if it’s kept in perspective. Not that my opinion matters – but – I think if you make something like PFAL the gold standard – you’ve just set some limits on your critical and creative skills. Instead of being challenged to do better thinking…clearer thinking – you never outgrow the debilitating “standards” set by an incompetent and deceitful teacher.