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These folks were by no means close friends of mine, but ones who had popped in and out of my life from the past, chiefly thru reading of them, from some old books passed down through the years. Another person even claims, as he was hiking in the mountains, a bush burst into flames, after which God proceeded to talk to him. He was even given a couple of stone tablets from God, which supposedly proclaimed God’s will for his people.. Great! But, then this guy threw the tablets down and broke them, as he became angry. What goes on with that? I really hate to admit it, but I’m concerned about their mental health. Jokingly, we can talk about chatting with a boa constrictor or diamond back rattle snake, but I fear it is beyond that with them. They claim this snake changed their’s, and all their relatives lives forever, by tricking one of them to eat an apple. Crazy, huh? And listening to a donkey talk? Hard to comprehend, isn’t it? I know you all are not Dear Abby, but I do need some help dealing with these situations. Any help will be truly appreciated, as I really what to assist them in any way I can

Ok...I’ll throw my two cents into the fray based on peronal experiences of someone not born into TWI. I readily acknowledge there is a huge difference in perspective from someone born into TWI vs. someone who chose the cult lifestyle. I coordinated a young adult fellowship at HQ for around 5 years or so...I have worked extensively with those who fall on both sides of the fence. The problems Bolshevik is dealing with can be common with folks who were raised in TWI, yet unique to his own situation. It's a perspective that I don't have first hand and I've developed a great deal of empathy for those who were born into TWI and are putting the pieces together. It's a hard row to hoe as they say. I will speak from my personal experiences though. The way international did offer a sense of belonging to me. I made it my new family and basically severly limited familial relationships as I progressed. Many people I know who are still in TWI stay because of social pressures if they leave. Being shunned, or marked and avoided, (as TWI call is it) is potentially a very powerful weapon to get people to tow the line. Not only does TWI offer a household as they call it they also allow you to volunteer to let TWI define your role in their household. The caste sytem they have. What level grad are you are? Whatever classes and programs you participate in will open up new roles to play in the household. Here’s an example or two. I knew many way corps who would not move past being leadership in the cult. They belong to the household and they relish their positions of responsibility. They crave the attention. Not belonging to the way corps is a death sentence for some. Why? Because being dropped from active corps (DFAC) is their worst nightmare. Not belonging to the way corps leadership body is a scary concept when you have sold out your entire life to become corps. I know because I had to wrestle with these same realities when I left in 2008. Also, I was in New Orleans a few months ago and looked up an old TWI friend that I havent seen in 23 years. Him and his wife live up in Baton Rouge and came down to New Orleans to hang with us for an afternoon. We talked very little of TWI but he kept reiterating to me that he would leave TWI...but where would he go? It’s the community of people that is the appeal for him and his wife. It keeps them where they are and basically apathetic to change, even though I could sense deep down they want more. As for people who have been born into TWI. Man there’s so much pressure on these kids by their parents it should be a crime. Most parents place their kids on a pedestal. The typical logic goes kinda like this: “Oh...little Johnny...you are being raised in the Word...therefore your believing should be so much greater than those outside the household.” Many parents push their kids into way disciple (or whatever its called now) or to work on Staff, or into the way corps. Some kids accept their arranged life and run with it and are promoted heavily by TWI for it. However, many grow up with deep seated issues as they try and adjust to life as an adult. It’s tough spot to be in. I’ve known Bolshevik for around 22 years or so and know a lot of what he has had to deal with over the years. I can say for all the hell I’ve been through on account of certain leadership in TWI, what he has been subjected to is awful and I have to say he has handled it better than I could have. They are afraid of losing their social status. It was a huge glass of ice water to the face when I had to adjust to life outside TWI's household. Life has never been better --- that social trap is tough to climb out of but it can be done.

Some leaders pushed for doing anything and everything - hosting the Rock, The Hard Place and other solid venues – leaving no stone unturned in order to bring folks together… (hey, wait up…I’ve shown myself out many times and would appreciate some company)

TWI currently hosts 2 separate festivals. One is called The Rock and the other is called The Hard Place. Due to leadership's inability to decisively promote one event over the other, most current followers find themselves caught between a Rock and a Hard Place. (I'll show myself out.)

This seems to have turned into a discussion on RoA - which is currently cancelled by the current TWI leadership (no doubt because the number of people attending wouldn't cover more than a small back yard. The massive fields that TWI has would be obviously vacant, not as in some previous years. I don't know if the current trustees, BoD or whatever they call themselves will reinstate RoA in some form. Hard to see how they could do that without completely embarrassing themselves. They'd have to hide away all pictures of previous RoA. Would scarcely bring in enough people to pay for the hire of the big marquee.

This goes back to the main things you can't get past. 1) Rocky's experience of the ROA was wildly different from mine, let alone yours. His had happy people who were happy to see each other and interact for the first time in a year. That wasn't exactly what mine was like, and after the 1989 ROA, that wasn't what ANY of them were like. Further, if you were in during the 80s, and a minor at the ROA, and not a kid of the BOD or something, you were held on a VERY short leash. BOD kids got away with everything, the other kids were 1/2 way to being in prison- which can be hard to imagine for anyone who didn't see it. So, when Rocky met up with old friends at the ROA, they felt like they belonged TO EACH OTHER- which is something he posted. If your experience of the ROA was different, that didn't erase HIS experience. ROA 88 and ROA 89 were completely different events, as experienced by attendees. Neither one meant the other didn't happen. "The ROA was disgusting." Depends on which ones, and where you were at with them. In the 1990s, they sounded awful for everybody. 2) An inability to separate the concept of "belonging" -which appears in healthy marriages, healthy friendships, and son- from groups like twi and the Nazis enforcing conformity is a really fundamental problem. I seriously recommend you get that fixed if you want a happier life. "Belonging" IS. Breathing IS. Eating IS. All of them can be done in harmful ways- vpw smoked for decades and ended up with cancer. Eating the wrong foods in the wrong amounts can lead to a heart attack. Socializing with twi can stunt your emotional growth and leave you unable to relate to other people. OR, each can be done in a healthy manner.

You extrapolated from what you witnessed to the experiences at campuses everywhere. You just lumped in social fraternities- with the drinking and parties- with service fraternities- that don't drink and give community service and leadership training- and, apparently, didn't even notice the difference when it was pointed out. No, you're not sorry to be offensive or oblivious- but it says something. "I resented having to dumb things down so we can all belong." I get the feeling that you use the word "belong" differently than most people. Actually, they recalibrated the IQ test scoring because the scoring went up, last I heard. Some people jumped to the conclusion that this means people are getting smarter. Myself, I think that it means that people taking the IQ tests are getting better at taking the IQ tests but not getting smarter at anything other than test-taking. Either way, the scores went up and had to be recalibrated to put "100" in the average once more. That doesn't indicate "dropping" scores. In a cult, the cult takes the place of a family, and I thought that was self-evident. If you want to know how to overcome the urge to actually "belong" somewhere, you have to stop being a human- it's part of the human condition. However, this problem is self-correcting. Emile Durkheim began the field of Sociology by noting that those who "belonged" - whether in a healthy marriage or some social group- lived longer than those who do not. So, take your pick. Find HEALTHY ways to socialize, or wait for the Reaper. "the childish sense of belonging." So long as you denigrate what makes for healthy people rather than try to understand it, your chances of "belonging" won't be so hot. You'll be continuously pushing it away to maintain a consistent self, and trying to belong as a matter of survival, and that just doesn't work. And you're manufacturing the problem in the first place by making "belonging" into a dirty word and healthy connections into something to deprecate.

Bolshevik, you've said you studied the "hard sciences"- which means you haven't studied the SOCIAL sciences, like Psychology and Sociology. I know that, in some circles, people who work in the hard sciences don't think much of the social sciences, but each has their place. Sociology, for example, isn't an entire field you can pick up in an afternoon reading the newspaper. Ever consider that you don't know the fields you've never studied? I'd hardly think to educate you on the hard sciences- but you're supposing you understand group movements, group cohesion, etc, having never studied them- and are perfectly happy to suppose you understand them and we don't. Some of us have actually studied them. Being a CONTINUOUS outsider doesn't do well for one's mental health. If you're not even happy belonging to your nuclear family (wife, kids) or your social circle (buddies you hang out with) , you're shutting yourself out of vital parts of life. If all you could say about family or friends is that those who enjoy being part of a family or hanging out with friends is that you don't because you prefer "freedom" and those who do enjoy them "don't like freedom so much", then this messageboard really is the least of your problems.

It's been said many, many times at the GSC, but I'll say it again- everyone's twi experience was different. When and where I went, "teaching at fellowship," for about 1/3 of us, was something quite comfortable. (Not everyone is comfortable teaching any group of any size.) We didn't have someone looming over our shoulders, and there was no uncomfortable feeling. We also experienced regular growth WITHOUT GOING DOOR TO DOOR.