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What an incredibly spiritually immature suggestion. GSC is not a religion, like victor's contrived TWI. Here abuse is exposed to the shame of abusive perpetrators like victor and Loy. Conformity is not enforced here.

Mike. Get this clear. I hate no-one. I hate ABUSE. Agape thinks no evil? Right. Agape calls evil out!! And I'm calling out the abuse that occurred and likely still occurs. That's not hate, that's love. Hate wants to cover the evil. Excuse it. Minimise it. Pretend it's "spiritual adultery" that matters (or some such rot). "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isa. 5:20.)

Its amazing how a simple concept like adultery was so twisted by victor paul wierwille and his clones. Simple biblical concept - husband of one wife and all that entails, which certainly being faithful sexually to your spouse would be of utmost importance. But wierwille rationalized it away and boinked all he could - he was a predator. It was so bad it took a FREAKING REASEARCH PAPER to call it out.(the author and all who agreed were fired - which martindale, howard allen and other kept up the practice)..it was systemic and you are fully aware and still pumping this trash which at this point makes you culpable by agreeing with it and trying to re-rationalize it all away. It was wrong then, it's wrong now and I don't care if only one person was victimized just a tiny little bit - its all wrong!

Correct! But a Christian organization that is all about material abundance is not a Christian orginazation at all because that's not what Christianity is about and its shameful to even attach Christ name to any organization that calls themselves Christian but preaches the damnable prosperity gospel. You can go make all the money you want in life and you can even do that as a Christian, but that's not the essence of Christianity.

I sing with a church music group. This year, I've asked if a group of us can go into a nearby care home (where I have an old friend) and sing carols for a little while. So that's what I'm doing on 20 Dec (I'm even cancelling an afternoon's work to be able to do it). It will bring much joy to the residents. I'm also serving on Christmas Day by fetching people for a Christmas Dinner and Party, put on by (mostly) Christians in the city, for people who would otherwise be on their own. There will be (so far) about 130 guests and there are dozens of people willing to lend a hand to put the party on: present wrappers, vege peelers, cooks, table setters, table hosts, fetchers of guests, others to take guests home, helpers for those who need a little extra attention for special needs such as toileting, washers-up... many hands make light work. Some have volunteered for more than one role. Everyone says it's a jolly occasion. Some volunteers have been doing it for many years. Additionally, quite a few churches are hosting Christmas lunches. Recently, October or November, as a church we held a Saturday morning for local tidying action. We hire three big skips, put at different locations, and people can bring rubbish to toss into them. The church is in one of the poorest areas of the city, and it's not easy for some to dispose of the broken fridge, the wretched old mattress, the table that finally broke, etc. Rather than dump in the street or leave to moulder in the back garden, we help keep the area tidy and more attractive to live in. The skips are manned, and those not manning skips were litter picking in the nearby streets and in the little shopping area. Local residents are amazed that we should do this - free! And we tell them that we do it because we love them, Jesus loves them and cares about them. And how else can we help them (as individuals)? Recently, some members of the church have seen a need for housing vulnerable people and have got involved with "Hope into Action." I am on the prayer and support team for this. Idea is to buy a house (=get an investor), furnish it, house some vulnerable people, and over two years mentor them, help them grow into responsible adults, and move on with their lives. There will be one social worker involved, and there will be two "befrienders" per tenant. Our first house has been bought, many members of the church helped with cleaning, painting, getting the garden up straight, and furnishing. First tenants move in very soon; three girls who have been in local authority care for some years. The tenants will know we are from the local church (it's actually 50yards across the road from the church!) but there is no pressure to come along, convert, or any such thing. It's just - loving them into becoming responsible adults. Bravo, Rob, for this outreach! https://www.hopeintoaction.org.uk/ So many ways to serve the lost and lonely.

The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

There is no such thing as coming on a forum against your will. Dude, I go on an opposing political parties forum. Do you think they mock and misrepresent me? Do I care? No. Regardless of what you do, somebody will always mock or misrepresent you, so you shrug your shoulders, continue living your life, and show everyone they were wrong. What you don't do is what you're doing, expecting a pity party

Bravo, OldSkool.

Strawman. But if you insist we shift in that direction, It's really not about people making more money. It's about people giving more money to the organization. You really want make to make more money? Send me $20 and I'll tell you how.

Yes, it's a great method IF its not the only action. TWI has no accountability and they refuse to be accountable. Mike - I saw the coverup and whitewash first hand for 8 years...its till going on today but for 8 years I saw it first hand and was supportive of it and involved. That's why I post here - I will not be included in their sins by my quiet support...and quiet support would be just what I would be giving them if I were to silently walk away.

Mike, I don't doubt that you have good ideas and ideas that are appropriate to the problem. The problem with talking to leadership is it will go nowhere at all, ever. Even if the leadership you are conversing with actually sends the suggestions up the way tree it will go nowhere at all...unless what they are doing is perceived as an effort to convert TWI people then there will be a swift mark and avoid decision, as in the case of RNR folks. The way international puts out a false front that they are amenable to suggestions; except they aren't. The directors will continue to run TWI the same way they have for years now, especially after they have spent all that money to lawsuit proof themselves. I was way corps and on the presidents cabinet and can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that they do not and will not take your suggestions. Why do I mention way corps? Because you, thankfully - for your own sake - (not being insulting here), were never corps. There's two faces with the way corps. The official one they present to the ministry and the real way corps that has a lot of delegated responsibility with very little actual authority. As a member of the cabinet I had very little actual authority besides what was delegated to keep my areas of responsibility functioninc smoothly. Think of it this way: There are leaders and there are managers. Managers work within a very limited framework to make others more effecient and successful in their jobs. Leaders have authority and responsibility and can make actual changes and steer everyone towards a common goal...perhaps oversimplified definitions but Im speaking about the way corps...most every way corps positions below the director/officer level is a management spot. The directors do not care for your feedback.

16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Also if they decide they don't want someone on staff, or in the WC, any longer. They'll be out of there within hours, without the opportunity to see anyone or say goodbye.

Actually they CAN and DO move very quickly. You saw none of this dragging motion after the RNR folks posted up their confrontation and demands. The shunning occurred fairly immediately.

You have full paragraphs playing the victim card but still fail to answer my simple question of what is your goal in interacting here?

Uncalled for, Mike. And untrue. Stop it. I have treated you politely and would prefer you to treat me politely too.

How much do you think they paid out of the ABS to get Baker and Hostetler to give them this advice which would be standard to avoid challenging the non profit status?

There is exactly zero from preventing those d1ckh3ads from coming here and engaging directly themselves. They are interested in their power not truth.

Hate to break it to you, but you're the one talking sides. So take your own advice. No, there is only one truth to the kind of man Saint Vic was. You keep saying he did a lot of good. I keep asking you to get specific. And you keep rabbiting. So tell me, what good did Saint Vic do? No you came here to give a lot of broad generalizations that in the grand scheme of things don't amount to squat. Give me some specifics.

Just as GSC is here to give the other side. But obviously, like the video above, that always triggers you. What's up? Afraid of the truth? So what? We're here to give the other side too Just as you act like a true believer in a religion and must purge ever mention of your bromance Saint Vic. Just as you have a right to free speech, so do we. So stay in your lane. So might we call your religion the Whited Sepulchure Side?

In the conventional sense: to compel compliance. No one mis-represents here. HOWEVER, If one does, one is swiftly corrected by others or oneself. Sometimes mocking and jeering are are done for their own sake. Sometimes the mocking and jeering are invited, and that invitation is then obliged. Nope. That's not why I mock and jeer. If you go back and read one of my very first posts, I expressed how important your voice is here, especially as an interlocutor, a foil. I accept your position as contrary to the truth exposed here. I accept that you are in denial of the truth with a closed mind. I accept that you are not a free thinker. This sort of willful ignorance begs to be mocked and jeered. As ever. As always. Nope. Nope. No one here uses cult tactics, such as those developed and championed by vpw. This is not an evangelizing nor proselytizing endeavor. There is no outreach. It's an open forum for survivors of the cult of TWI. It reveals the truth of the abuse and error of victor paul wierwille and the freak of nature religious corporate cult he built. No one is dominated here. It's a hot kitchen, but everyone found their own way here. No one is forced to be here. Most are anonymous. No one's lives or livelihoods are in any way contingent on participation here. This could be my last post ever, and no one would care. Same goes for you. We were not invited or love bombed to be here. No one cares if we stay or go. If you want to start a message board for lovers of vpw and TWI, you are free to do so. It should be obvious to anyone reading these threads, apologists for vpw and his cult, though welcome, will not be received with a bouquet and a red carpet.

Victor first taught this wickedness to his master student. In turn, his master student taught this wickedness to victor's beloved CORPS. There is no LCM without VPW. LCM was adopted by VPW; VPW's seed in dwells in LCM. VPW put oil on LCM's head -- OIL!! As every English translation of the Bible goes back to Tyndale, so all wickedness and failings of TWI go back to Wierwille -- ALL of it. A childish, spiritual immaturity blames LCM and makes him the scapegoat for victor paul wierwille's manifest contempt of God, Truth, Love. "Beauty is simply reality seen with the eyes of Love." - Tagore

Reason 117. Don Quixote It causes you to construct windmill battles in your mind like Don here above.