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If Saint Vic was teaching about how limited God is, he's probably setting up an excuse for the dismal failure of his "law of believing." It's no secret that many people approached Martindale concerned about where the promised prosperity was. Martindale's response: "You want prosperity? God on welfare." If Martindale was getting doubtful questions, you know Saint Vic was getting them too. His excuse: Well, you see, God is limited.

Ooh ooh ooh – thought of another one! There was the time 450 prophets of Baal had a budget cuts crisis – fortunately Elijah worked for a God who wasn’t financially strapped: 20So Ahab sent word throughout all Israel and assembled the prophets on Mount Carmel. 21Elijah went before the people and said, “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.” But the people said nothing. 22Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire—he is God.” Then all the people said, “What you say is good.” 25Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose one of the bulls and prepare it first, since there are so many of you. Call on the name of your god, but do not light the fire.” 26So they took the bull given them and prepared it. Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made. 27At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention. 30Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come here to me.” They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the Lord, which had been torn down. 31Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord had come, saying, “Your name shall be Israel.” 32With the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs a of seed. 33He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, “Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood.” 34“Do it again,” he said, and they did it again. “Do it a third time,” he ordered, and they did it the third time. 35The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench. 36At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: “Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37Answer me, Lord, answer me, so these people will know that you, Lord, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again.” 38Then the fire of the Lord fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench. 39When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “The Lord—he is God! The Lord—he is God!” 40Then Elijah commanded them, “Seize the prophets of Baal. Don’t let anyone get away!” They seized them, and Elijah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there. 1 Kings 18 NIV

I'm really kind of surprised he didn't, at least, use the character of Hamburglar, to represent the thief who comes to steal.. I mean, wasn't VPW the guy who had the original concept for McDonald's?

Sounds more like an opportunist and shady huckster.

Yeah. I remember him wearing bright red boots and telling everyone he polished them so he could see up ladies skirts. He taught some practical business type class in the corps that mostly was about turning off lights and saving pencils. And how God is your insurance. That one came more after we went to work for the Way without health insurance. Or self funded insurance with the Directors evaluating every claim. Who is he married to now? Wanda?

An the WoWs weren't in it because they had no dosh to spend, and anyway they were on a 2 drink limit.

You obviously never served in the military. Any good soldier knows there are no rules to war. Even if there were rules, do you honestly think the devil would follow them? Games have rules. That takes you into Martindale territory. He tried to sell the idea that this was a game and not a war. As for believing, dumping tons of manure and hoping something beautiful will grow just isn't working for you. First off, how much persistence did we need to get born again? To speak in tongues? So that's Saint Vic trying to cover up for his impotence in the spiritual world. Second, is it possible for someone to be born again without knowing scripture? Give you an example: I went to the doctor because I was horribly tired all the time. The doctor took a blood test and sent the results to my house. I showed them to my mother, an LPN, and she thought they were bad news. All my blood cells were screwed up enough for me to need a blood transfusion. I sent an email to my ex, explaining what my mother thought it was. A few days later, my ex calls me and spends 20 minutes telling me how to get born again. Not once did she quote scripture. (I was found to have a rare form of lymphoma.) So, you don't need persistence, not scripture to get born again, (all that's required is confessing with your mouth and believing in your heart), so why would you need it for any other type of believing? A these little bits and bobs are just Saint Vic's way of blaming you for his lying about keeping his promise.

Howard.... just like his mentor, wierwille. A sexually-harassing creep. On my wedding day, Howard Allen is going to walk my bride down the aisle. Martindale is the presiding minister over the wedding ceremony. Monty H0bbs is my best man. The four of us are in the back room of the BRC awaiting for the proceedings to begin. Howard had been hitting the hard stuff, because I could smell it on his breathe and noticed him slurring a bit. Anyways, as we're waiting.... he comes over to me and says, "I like running with _________ (my bride's name), because I like to watch her boobs bounce." Imagine the creep that he is.... to say this on my wedding day and he's the sleaze who will be escorting her down the aisle and "giving her away." So readers and lurkers.... just know that Howard has a flirty, harassing underbelly to his emeritus-irrelevance. Peace to all.

I seem to remember (vaguely) there having been problems with ham making people sick because it had been left at unhealthful temps.

As far as I know, they were not. They were ordinary hamburgers, cooked on commercial BBQ grills, like you would see a typical outdoor festival, and transferred to platters on a picnic table as they finished cooking . But, picture this: It's a hot August day in Ohio and you're leaving food uncovered on a picnic table, mere steps away from the porta-pots. You weren't supposed to point out the obvious problem to anyone because it would be seen as a negative confession. And, anyway, you could just beleeeeve they wouldn't make you sick. What a fellow's hip, what a joint divine.