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It seems you have either forgotten the primary theme or weren't paying close attention the first time you read it. I spent 20 years studying the Cliff Notes.

You only have to look at the credentials and breadth of knowledge of those who translated the "KJV" (=AV). And then the credentials and breadth of knowledge of "fellowship commanders." Yeah. Really well qualified to make snarky, condescending jabs. About as well qualified as a flea telling an elephant it can't tread somewhere.

This... From a person who apparently does not understand the concept of improvisation or character immersion.

For the most part, this discussion has been an exercise in futility. The issue is not "black/white, yes/no, either/or" in essence. The real question is what potion and how much of our decision making is influenced by conditioning as opposed to what portion and how much is governed by conscious decision. Obviously, there are infinite combinations possible.

Or the actor could just stand in silence on stage and do nothing and wait for his cue. (Like a duck.) Is the actor FORCED to flub lines?

Most of what Saint Vic wanted to say lead to control

There is nothing to untangle. Just open it and read it. The Bible is pretty straightforward...the so called research was necessary for the Bible to say what victor paul wierwille wanted it to say thus his phony research.

He probably meant parallel.

He didn't mean complete the way you or I or billions of others would use it. Not today. Not in 1967. Not in 90 CE. Somewhere in the collaterals there must be victor's own private definition of complete.

Yep. It's not research at all. That is clear. Inventing definitions is required. That is also clear. Got to MAKE it fit. No one missed it.

Thank you, Charlene. The Walter Cummins quote supports a recently asserted apologia. Research is for verification, not discovery. It's a verification ministry, not a research ministry. The research should support victor's imagination. (The apologist said this with a straight face.) And the "endorsement" directly following Walter's! Throughly vs thoroughly. Wow. Did you have an OED at the research department?

Thanks for posting that brochure....boy what a shameless fluff piece pushing PFLAPPY...Walter's comment is so very revealing and I think we see from the beginning that VPW was busy setting himself up as some great one...sad.

Along these lines, I think of the philosopher Hereclitus saying the only thing for certain is change. Something like that. Speaking of change ... here's a little peek into Way archives: 25th Way Anniversary brochure. Notice the PFAL "endorsement" quotes, especially one by W*alter C*ummins. 1443088419_25thannivTWI.pdf

Free will exists in babies, as they can choose their course of action from coming out of the womb. They just don't exercise their free will. Babies have free will, as they can choose to feed or not, cy or coo. About the terrible twos, about the time the child learns to say no, free will sharply increases. Then there's another sharp increase when the child heads into the rebellious teen years.

Depending on the catagory of one’s life being addressed, measuring defeat can be varied. If a baseball hitter successfully gets on base 3 out of every 10 trips to the plate, he is considered a success. If a parachutest fails to deploy his or her chute only 1 time, it can lead to the ultimate defeat. A sales person is required to make a minimum amount of sales to be succeesful. A business owner may not get too many chances to succeed if they cannot read the market they are invested in. Of course these fall into the catagory of making a livelihood, so one must also be able to know their limitations. If you choose baseball as a career, and out of the last 10 times at bat you get a hit only 1 time, it would be wise to choose another path to support your family financially. If someone is talking about bettering their life emotionally, mentally, or physically, they had better be prepared to accept defeat on many turns, but not allow themselves to become defeated. I have experienced defeat so many times when attemting to grow mentally, it is impossible to count. The only thing I can do is pick myself up, start over again, and probably be defeated again. But, at some point, a bit of light shines through, and all the effort has been worthwhile. The result may not be totally what I wanted, but it keeps me going on to greater heights. At one point in my life I was terrified of public speaking. To overcome this I joined a group called Toastmasters International. It’s programs began with very easy tasks such as talking in front of the group for a minute. Then learning how to avoid saying, “uh” every other word, then lengthening the speaking duration to 5 minutes, to going to speach meets competing against other groups. The point being it was like taking baby steps, and not a huge leap forward. As long as a person can find habits, thoughts, and actions to change in their life, they will never want for something to do.

YES! YES! YES! We still have the ability to choose whether or not to bend with the influence, hence we still have free will. As Cuddy shows us the postures and body languages that influence our life, we can move from happenstance (pun intended) to being in control of our posture and body language through our free will, and thereby change our life. Awareness + Choice = Free Will @Mike

YES ! YES ! YES ! We start out having only a very minor influence on our behavior, but with persistence that self-influence can grow.

Well, answers are available. What does the YourBelieving+YourWalk+TheBible+ChristInYou say about it? Reading into it whatever you want is fine as long as you call it with your mouth exegesis. Don’t call it eisegesis. Don’t do it. Doooooon’t do it! We were “taught” inventing definitions of words and corrupting what YourBelieving+YourWalk+TheBible+ChristInYou says is necessary to MAKE it fit like a glove. Remember, Paul left his cloak behind, but he didn’t forget his gloves. Gloves are most important - the glove is the key. We were “taught” the conclusion must come first. The proof, the common sense, the logic, both intellectual and spiritual, are never that important. The proofs appear important, but they are merely apparent. The glove is the conclusion. If the hand doesn’t fit the glove, don’t blame the glove! Don’t do it. Dooooon’t do it! Surgery, not tailoring, may be required. Cut off a finger, add some filler, whatever. We were “taught” it MUST fit, so MAKE it fit! victor paul wierwille “taught” defecating in the mouth of God is problematic only if you believe it will be. We were “taught” to imitate victor, to stand on his shoulders. Most “grads” missed these “teachings” the first time. These “teachings” were never fully absorbed.