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Of course. It would be exactly his style. He said a lot of things people didn't understand. The Gospels show and tell how the people, even his own disciples, didn't understand him.

Dont wait on me, Im not really participating in this conversation because I have addressed you several times with points of consideration that youve ignored....talking with you in this context is like clapping with one hand...its all about you and Im not into feeding narcissisism. Most everyone of your posts are condescending and your choice of words indicate a disdain for people here that you have a prejudice against folks here because we reject your false prophet. So, again, don't wait on me....carry on sir.! Peace.

It's simple: we don't steal others works and claim them as our own and we keep our paws off of the ministry women, reserving our passions for our wife.

The following is a post of mine from the "New John Juedes video debunking Wierwille Books" thread. I think we all agree that love is a basic need of us humans so a new discussion about love - both human and God's - might be beneficial to some. I’ve been listening to the audiobook “The Power of Vulnerability” by Brene Brown. From what I’ve heard so far, she’s made no reference to God so I think it’s safe to say she is talking about human love. As a result of her research on vulnerability and shame, she gives her definition of love as being: “We cultivate love when we allow our most vulnerable and powerful selves to be deeply seen and known and when we honor the spiritual connection that grows from that offering with trust, respect, kindness and affection. Love is not something we give or get, it’s something that we nurture and grow. It’s a connection that only can be cultivated when it exists within each one of them. We can only love others as much as we live ourselves. Shame, blame, disrespect, betrayal and the withholding of affection damage the roots from which love grows. Love can only survive its injuries if they’re acknowledged, healed and rare.” Concerning God's love, two verses I’ve been thinking about lately are 1 Cor 13:8, “Charity never fails” and verse 13, “And now abides faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.” The first is an incredible promise and the latter is a pretty significant fact. Why is charity the greatest when compared to faith and hope? With faith, Gal 5:6 says For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love; and with hope Rom 5:5 says, And hope maketh not ashamed (disappointed); because the love of God is shed (poured out) abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. I haven’t given much thought as to the accuracy of vp’s and twi’s actual teachings about the love of God, but we know that the opposite of it was manifested towards many, many believers. This would be one reason for their lack of faith/trust/believing being demonstrated. That leaves hope. How was our belief and understanding of the hope affected back then and what do we think now about this topic that is spoken so often of in scripture? The topic of human and God's love is broad. I'll start a new thread and see where it goes from there.

And yes Rocky, I know Mike won't read my post - but I enjoyed writing it.

It is finished for me. If anyone wants to make further fools of themselves entertaining the idea of bible-idolatry, have at it.

Yeah, makes sense...good catch. Expect? No, my expectations are pretty low. Whenever anyone asks mike a question that doesn't fit his narrative he ignores it...so...I expect more of the same really...but hey...he has a chance to at least...

I knew there was a need for this topic, especially in light of the fountainous bullshonta developing in the other thread. Thank you, Charity, for starting it. This resonates. I think this may be foundational to sociopathy and associated personality disorders like NPD and BPD. This resonates with me, as well. Thank you. ------ Love is NOT conditional, transactional. Love is complete acceptance of what actually is, not what we want or hope something to be. This is especially true for love of self, something I've struggled with my entire life.

I really like that you mentioned boundaries. I immediately thought of what I've learned previously about them from books and counselling, but then I thought of googling if there are boundaries in the Bible. I expected to get a bunch of websites about O.T.'s division of land, but I was wrong. This is one of them that I liked (haven't read the whole article yet). It mentions Jehovah Rapha in a title at the top which means "The Lord who Heals" and a short "Meet the Author" speaks of personal healing within her marriage where sexual addiction was involved. 5 More Principles of Biblical Boundaries we Learn from God. - His Dearly Loved Daughter Ministries Your last sentence has two very good questions to come back to and think about.

Great post and thanks! I disagree with her findings because I feel love is something we are given. We are given the ability to express human love by God and we the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the spirit he has given us..moving onwards here... This paragraph is thought provoking for me. You know a lot of the issues Im dealing with as far as PTSD or even CPTSD in my case and a lot of this makes sense to me. So much of our disposition has been influenced by our verious environments through different seasons of life. Ive had to learn so many things because of my extremely dysfunctional upbringing. Ive had to learn how to love and how to trust and it's in the context of setting boundaries to help navigate relationships. But I feel for most people love is learned by example and taught primarily in the home. but love is something we are given...the question is do we know what to do with love and are we capable of expressing love once we experience it.

In The Power of Vulnerability, Brene Brown says, "We can only love others as much as we live ourselves." and she gives an example why she believes this. Matthew 22:39 says, And the second is like unto it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. Many others, including me, would say I love my children more than I love myself and I find some truth in this. I would do anything for my children to keep them safe, loved, cared for, etc., and I mean this with all my heart. But how is it that I would know how to love them one way, a better way, than I know to love myself and if I could, why would I not love myself in that same way? Is it because they're more deserving than I am, or that I want them to "turn out healthier" than I did? Yes on both accounts. However, I believe one has to take into account what we grew up learning about love and has since become "hardwired" in our brains like a default setting. If a child grows up believing love cannot be trusted, that they're unlovable or not worthy of love, that loving someone means neglecting their own needs or that love means sex, these negative beliefs are not easy to change as an adult. What are the chances then that they might affect how I act towards my children, spouse, etc. On this forum, I've heard how time spent in twi changed healthy beliefs about loving yourself and others into self-hatred or a distrust of love. We learned that even the love of God was conditional and became hard-hearted towards certain others. When trying to figure this all out, there are self-help books, counselling and therapy on the one hand, and on the other are what scriptures teach like 2 Tim 1:7 For God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of love and of power and of a sound mind; and 1 Thes 4:9 But as touching brotherly love, ye need not that I write unto you: for you yourselves are taught of God to love one another. What works and what doesn't work?

So in order to love somebody with agape love that is hungry, physically starving to death then to love them I should do their will...I mean God forbid if their will is to rob a bank so they don't starve...IGod forbid I would love them by giving them food and shelter or a job or whatever would actually help them and demonstrate God's agape love which is expressed as giving...so do I love peoples will and words when those will and words are sinful and contrary to God's will?

I would say nearly nonexistent. Sarcasm, condescension and feigned concern are not particularly good motivators.

You've crossed the Rubicon, Mike.

Still no honest answer. If you have a reference, please provide it.

How is this even reasonable? You tell me the Bible says something. When I ask you where, you say I need to find it myself.

When Jesus spoke of loving God, did it involve developing a reverence for the scrolls?

That's not what you said. You said when we love we love their words and their will. Now who's dodging?

So, the artful dodger wants to critique others on dodging. Are you saying dodging is wrong? Does this mean you'll stop dodging and get down to brass tacks? So, you claim to agape us. Does that mean you love our words and our will?

Did anybody ask for one?

Along these lines, another great read on the topic is Stephen Prothero's book, American Jesus: How the Son of God Became a National Hero. From the description: "Jesus the Black Messiah; Jesus the Jew; Jesus the Hindu sage; Jesus the Haight-Asbury hippie: these Jesuses join the traditional figure of Jesus Christ in American Jesus, which was acclaimed upon publication in hardcover as an altogether fresh exploration of American history--and as the liveliest book about Jesus to appear in English in years."

And I submit this knowing of the truth of this deception is a seeing of the truth. Whether one sees it within the first few minutes of PFAL, or one catches a glimpse in the mirror years later, or one endeavors to test every piece of bullshonta over a lifetime, for each it is the same. It is an instantaneous, bell-ringing clarity of vision. It is NOT a belief. It is not even knowledge. Once seen, it cannot be unseen.

Who cares whether Mike tells you your answers might be wrong. Mike, however, with his overly simplistic and generalized proposal demonstrates a gigantic failure of imagination. Regarding those good words and fair speeches... For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. Romans 16:18 (KJV) Mike seems to indict both Victor Wierwille and himself in doing so. And pretty much ALL of us who fell under his influence, had our hearts deceived for a time.

You are asking questions and then providing answers that dont fit for me. You really love someone deeply by giving and sharing one's life with them. By providing what they need and accepting what they provide in return. Youve accepted good words and fair speeches as gospel so you cannot see beyond those words. The most important thing about someone I love? Well that depends on the person/entity, the scenario, and the nature of the relationship. The thing I love most about God is expressed in John 3:16. That God so loved the World that he gave his only begotten son. So the thing I love about God the most is that he gave of himself and that Jesus Christ was the perfect passover for the sins of man. Jesus Christ is not the Bible. The Bible is not Jesus Christ...the Bible can never take the place of Jesus Christ. Thats my final answers before you come in telling me my answers are wrond.

Is this the answer to your how (H-O-W) question? Or is it the answer to your what question?

Another point where Saint Vic excelled. I'm sure he really cared about Mrs. Weirwille's words and her will for her family.

I know you weren’t Rocky. And I was okay with you still maintaining in your post that vp’s entire enterprise was based on and revolved around bibliolatry. I wrote earlier that I felt the topic of bibliolatry did belong in the About the Way forum when it was being used to refute vp and twi. To answer your question - no I have no problem whatsoever with a thread in the doctrinal forum on the subject of bibliolatry.