Leaderboard

Visit this T.E.D. talk by former moonie & deprogrammer, Diane Benscoter, about how the human brain is changed by the circular logic, etc. of extreme dogmatic groups. Diane Benscoter's T.E.D. talk I think she may be right about how impenetrable circular logic can be, although for many of us who left TWI, for example, somehow we found a way to break through that firewall so it is not impossible to do. Critical thinking is the method of release, as far as I'm concerned. Anyway, this topic is not new to many of you here, but her talk is concise. She has also written a memoir. It's food for thought and debate. T.E.D. is a site for "Ideas worth spreading" as it says. Cheers!

I think that sometimes, it just takes time. I think that other activities, involvement with people who don`t act and think the same way I do have helped tremendously. New hobbies and interests, indulging in activities that I enjoy that have no merit or practical gain lol... are just some of the things that I think have helped me post twi. Good friends, great community, martial arts, theatre, horses, kayaking, rambunctious kids....all activities that get me outside of my little box or comfort zone. I see each as contributing and developing the person and character that I intend to be. I remember after leaving twi...it may have been almost 10 years...but I got so excited when one day, I realized that my life in front of me was a blank slate. I could fill the rest of it up with whatever pleased me...I could be whoever I wanted to be....I was free! I don`t think that we can throw a mental switch and blammo we are *fixed* from our twi involvement...What I do think is that God has been at work through the situations and people that I have been involved with since leaving...gently leading ... helping me to recognize and change the damaging thought processes that made me vulnerable to cult think in the first place. So yeah, I agree brainfixed, I had to throw out anything that walked, talked, smelled like, or resembled twi in ANY way. I had to humble myself and recognize that what I had been taught about God, what I believed about life, the universe, my place in it and my responsibility was all so interspersed with lies and that I needed to start all over again with a fresh new foundation.

Thanks for the welcome Jeff! I'm doing very well thank you. But there is a small part of me that would love to have 15 minutes to point out a few things to LCM: Me, one of the ones you wanted the revelation to murder is remarried to a non-believer who is the kindest, sweetest most loving person on the planet. Someone who is honest and who strives every day to be a better person. Financially my life is sweet. I am finishing my degree and the best part, I am finally, truly, happy. The man you thought was so wonderful... yeah, he's living somewhere out in the back of beyond, can't work, and he's waiting on a kidney transplant. And you are, from what I hear, wearing a uniform and looking a bit pathetic. In my world we call that karma.

Hi! I was WOW in Rockford, Illinois in 86-87 with Carol Sue Brown, Charles Ray Juarez and Lloyd Mandula. Is there anyone around that was in Rockford then and remembers them? I happen to know where Charlie is (we were married for 20 years) but lost track of Lloyd and Carol Sue.

My latest TC used to spend most of the week checking what was taught on SNS. And I mean checking.....as if he was grading a paper. Every greek word was researched, he even went so far as to check the interlinear. I'm sure there are things he may have missed because he was not thoroughly versed in "research principles" but he really wanted to make sure what they were putting out was right. I can't remember it now, but there were quite a few things we heard on the tape that never showed up again in our trachings.

Well, yes exactly! But, I do remember something along the lines of a teaching that indicated anyone of us could have lived the life He did and saved mankind. To think about that now. . . I have to slap my forehead, and ask myself. . . what was I thinking? Blasphemy comes to mind. The whole idea of God being Holy is a concept that was nearly nonexistent in TWI. Vp taught and lived like a man who had no clue. Cheap grace. Bought cheaply if some of those teachings are to be believed. Here is another link to that site http://www.gotquestions.org/substitutionaryatonement.html . . . by the way. . . Chuck Swindoll, who was quoted and relied upon in the first link I gave. . . is a well known evangelical Pastor, teacher, and author. A graduate of Dallas Theological. Not only the idea of death being a separation is important to consider, but also. . . what it means to live. What it means that our lives are hid with Christ. The whole concept of eternal separation from God. . . wailing and gnashing of teeth. . . so to speak. What exactly is it we are saved from?? For now. . . all die a physical death. . . . our bodies and our minds are separated. Was "soul sleep" a correct teaching? . . . . That is why this topic is nearly impossible to really discuss here and somewhat pointless. Many still believe in the ideas espoused by VP and other aberrant groups(NOT used as a pejorative!!). . . soul sleep, unitaianism, annihilationism . . . These are not traditional Christian teachings. I can see how one group of beliefs would lead to one conclusion. . . another concept a different conclusion. Makes perfect sense. To me it is just another illustration of how far removed from traditional Christianity we really were. How all those teachings and most basic beliefs about God lead in two different directions. What I also wonder about VP . . . . is why he was almost anxious to remove the symbol of the cross from our minds. We didn't wear crosses. . . we replaced it with the HS dove. . . . we removed the cross from the chapel at Emporia, and we were always ready to tell someone it was a rather macabre fixation. . . "If He had died in the electric chair. . . " :( The symbol of the cross evokes reverence and awe in Christians. . . because of what was accomplished. If the bible is to be believed. . . it is the most significant event in human history. . . coreographed by God Himself. .. and all moments were leading to the work done there. . . mankind changed forever. . . It must be significant what we understand about it. Doesn't that make sense? But, I do believe these are questions we need to work out an answer for ourselves with sincere examination and humbleness before God. There is no quick easy and obvious fix IMO. . . It is a foundation issue. . . pfal was a rotten foundational understanding.

Perhaps it's a matter of interpreting certain words like "death". In my TWI era [or maybe TWI error ] – my view of death leaned more toward it being annihilation. But now I think there's probably a lot more to "death" in any category than just assuming it is the simplistic show-stopper, "that's all folks" that I gathered from PFAL. I know I'm not doing a great job of selling the idea – and not saying a lot of doctrine hinges on this point. Like a lot of things – I'm not sure about this – I was just expressing my current point of view. Guess I've shifted from looking at death as an end of state to a change of state. Like you, I would love Scripture to be clearer on some things…well…a lot of things really. So after saying all that I'd like to ask – when Scripture says Jesus tasted death for every man or He was the perfect sacrifice, a lamb led to the slaughter, or that the wages of sin is death – is it possible there's a lot more to these death references than the simple cessation of bodily functions. I don't want to alter Scripture – thought the example you gave of Jesus was separated from the Father for us sounded odd….yeah….you've got me worried that I'm having a warped-Corps breach….uhm meltdown or something – and the Literal Translation According to Usage thingy is leaking out…..Anywho……maybe I'll just throw this in the hermetically sealed I dunno vault - that's also where I keep my viewpoint of the Trinity. Yes – I understand your point completely. And I didn't mean to offend any Christians or insult my Savior in the way I said what I did. I DO AGREE with you in that there can be a lot of disagreement over what the experience was, fundamentally. And I guess to reiterate my point or sum it up or something….The gospels give us a lot of detail about Jesus' last hours. What is lacking though is an outright statement from God Almighty on the exact meaning behind every detail. My contention is that Jesus felt what it was like to be spiritually separated from God – which I think was such a gross and unbelievably heavy burden for the Son of man to bear that He cried out in helpless despair. Taking on our sin…becoming sin for us….He now experienced the consequences of sin first hand – separation from God…. He truly paid the price for our sins….Maybe I'm trying to explore how much Jesus gave up….it wasn't just a beating heart. And that's what's so unique about the crossroads of justice and love. God loved Jesus AND a fallen race. I don't know why it had to work out this way – but going by Scriptures' praise for all of Jesus' accomplishments I guess the best way God could satisfy the claims of justice in a moral universe was a loving sacrifice commensurate to the demands.