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Was having an interesting discussion with a friend about Jesus and who he is. They come from the position of Jesus being God incarnate. He mention a book written about the sacrifice of Jesus and what it means. Interesting idea to consider [or not]; Most Christian thought has taken us back into the blood sacrifice mindset of religious history, missing the point of the whole 'Christ' event in the stagnant and repetitive pool of human history. The text of the New Testament, apart from The Letter to the Hebrews, can be read in a non-sacrificial light, certainly a non blood-atonement light. Unfortunately the early interpreters of the text quickly fell back into the old standard sacrificial interpretation of Yeshua's death, one that let the principalities and powers of the scapegoating mechanism off the hook for the last two millennia. The Letter to the Hebrews tried to interpret Yeshua's violent death to Jewish believers through their familiar lens of the prevalent sacrificial Temple Cult. many of my ideas have been stirred by the writings of Catholic academic Rene Girard. I'd suggest his wonderful book 'Things Hidden from the foundation of the World', Book2 which examines the Judeo-Christian scriptures in light of his mimetic theory. An expensive but extremely rewarding read. http://www.amazon.com/Things-Hidden-Since-Foundation-World/dp/0804722153/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1349710169&sr=8-2&keywords=Hidden+from+the+foundation+of+the+World%27%2C+Book2

I think the contradiction comes more into play with my views of glossalalia, and perhaps to a lesser degree, my lack of understanding of it's definition. However, I have always considered glossalalia BS. Perhaps, that was my safety mechanism to protect my TWI theology that never allowed dissent. Now I am considering (that perhaps) the human mind could subconsciously make up something along these lines as a possibility. And yes it's disconcerting. I have faith in man. Man is not always wrong. I think in this case the experts in question have done the best they could with what they have had to work with. Though, I don't find them very convincing considering the scope of what they are studying. And it does clash with my theology concerning the subject. So when given a choice between faith in man vs. faith in God I tend towards faith in God in my best efforts to trust him. I admit that I am a walking conundrum at times when it comes to the remains of my tattered beliefs. But I am working through at my pace and recovering from extremely difficult circumstances in my personal life. So, as I have said, it's been good to get into this subject. GSC has forced me to call into question many beliefs I have held as infallible. Some have stood, many have fallen.

I understand what you are saying. It's a natural line of logic from the admission of faking it. Next, you question whether you are unique - is it REALLY available to Christians or not. Next, you tie in the false teacher input wondering whether because VP was an evil guy that whether he introduced devil spirits into our lives by his false teachings. So one of the underlying questions is "how much can God protect someone in a false ministry?" I'm sure everyone on this forum has had positive Christian experiences while in TWI. (Yes, I know many may question whether the experiences were genuinely Christian or not). "Can God have protected our hearts while experiencing the BS of TWI so that we could heal?" Quite obviously there is a lot of emotional damage from how TWI operates. So in that respect yes the false teachings have taken their toll. But without admitting the positive experiences as being from God's influence, how to reconcile them? Some of it goes right down to what you believe about God? Is He good always? Is He powerful enough to protect us even under false teachers influence? I think Paul's teachings on false teachers and the impact are clear. Agree VP was a false teacher, and TWI was/is a cult. PFAL and "word of faith" theology? I don't even know what that is. I mean Norman Vincent Peale wrote "The Power of Positive Thinking", and wrote for many mainstream Christian magazines in addition to his books. Is he based in the occult? I certainly always thought VP's "bodybuilder" analogies with SIT were a little far-fetched. I didn't buy that. I also didn't buy that it's your only "proof" of eternal life. If that's all you need then what about faith? I did appreciate that at least PFAL listed all the verses related to SIT in any conceivable fashion. That was so much more than any denominational minister ever did for me, and I asked them. However, the next step of leaping to logical conclusions I felt was interspersed in the teachings. For myself, since SIT was more naturally occurring as part of my prayer life since a teen, it was easy just to keep praying and kind of hold the BS in abeyance. Sudo's "seemed like a good idea at the time" I can relate to. I'm so embarrassed over all those "excellor" sessions I led, having people start with the letter "C" then fabricate the tongue language (mostly). And all the extemporaneous BS I presented similarly in that light - the "bodybuilder" analogy even though I didn't fully agree with it, the "building fluency" lines of BS. Actually it wasn't a good idea at the time - it was BS. I was just blind to it. I guess picking up the pieces is never easy. That's why we need to talk to each other.

Pete.....thanks for starting this thought-provoking thread. When it comes to "vetting" an individual or organization, the scriptures are laced with plenty of pearls of wisdom. Obviously, there are those [especially, youth] who are swayed by emotion, charisma, appearances, glitter, slick presentations and advertising, peer pressure idolizing, etc.........and thus, the scriptures unequivocally point out the camouflaged and hidden aspects of DECEPTION, MANIPULATION, EXPLOITATION, etc. that are designed to "fool the very elect." 1) Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and [the leaven] of Herod. 2) Wolves in sheeps' clothing 3) You shall know them by their fruits 4) Tares and wheat....will be known at harvest 5) Those who suppress by winks and hods 6) Not with excellency of speech, BUT DEMONSTRATION OF POWER 7) Etc. Etc. The manipulation that THE WAY INTERNATIONAL employed was multi-leveled......but one of their sinister ploys was that once a person took the class and "got involved" was to stay the course. What? Excuse me......but when one recognizes evil deceiving, then he has EVERY RIGHT TO STOP ALL INVOLVEMENT AND LEAVE. Why did Jesus expose the Pharisee hypocrisy over and over? Because the people were ensnared in this system of evil and could not see it! Systems, structures and organizations layered in bureacracy often hide the simplicity of the truth. And, when one peels back all the obfuscation of these systems, truth emerges.

The ABSOLUTE RULE OF WIERWILLE was one of many false doctrines promulgated by wierwille. The ABSOLUTE RULE OF MARTINDALE was the continuation of wierwille's abusive authoritarian rule. The ABSOLUTE RULE OF RIVENBARK is concealed in a reporting-back style of command chain doctrine. The ABSOLUTE RULE OF NEXT-GROOMED-MOG will be a continuation of twi's evil and abuse. Micromanaging followers with directives and policies is NOT 'freedom in Christ' or walking by the spirit. And, with each passing decade......twi is waxing worse and worse. Far removed from any Christian substance or practical application, twi is taking its followers into a spiralling drain hole of vanity. Twi was methodically built on a man-made foundation that has been crumbling since its inception.