Ham

That is another point. How do you pin down a false prophet, based on HIS definition of prophecy, or revelation? vic's definition leaves a few loopholes, with supposed good reasons for exceptions. Doesn't happen? Just claim it was some kind of conditional revelation. "Gawwd told me only once, ya know..". Trying to convict the vicster of being a false prophet, based on vic's definitions of prophecy, prophets and revelation, would be like trying to convict Clinton of adultery, based on Clinton's definition of sex..

I wonder what kind of microscope they're under now..

Perhaps I'm not being very clear.. I think my real point is, how many times does a person have to catch another in a lie, in adultery, in a false prophecy, or in an exaggerated claim two millimeters away from being a lie.. before branding them a liar, a false prophet, a huckster? As far as the bible is concerned, the prophet wasn't afforded a second chance. His life depended on whether or not the next prophecy came to pass or not.. and even then with a few qualifications. Unless the king served Baal. Somebody borrows a mere, stinking five dollars.. "Oh, I'll pay you back this friday.." "oops, I meant next friday.." "sorry, I was out of town. make it next week.." "I swear, next weekend for sure.." Ten or so weeks later.. "hey buddy, can I borrow five bucks.. I'll pay you back the five, and the other five next week.." "NO? Are you questioning my INTEGRITY??" Point is.. twi's mouthpiece has exhibited a PATTERN of falsehood, exaggeration.. some ouright lies, as in "we inform our people of EVERYTHING from soup to peanuts.." What about vic's failed "prophecies"? "The u.s. is being taken over by "them" in 1976..". There are others, but I don't remember all the details. loy, regarding Tiger Woods.. "He'll never amount to anything.." regarding the vatican.. "the pope's gonna buy an aircraft carrier, and come start a new inquisition.." loy went as far as to read a page out of Bullinger's witness of the stars, and claim it as his own, as if he brought new light.. I really don't think "innocent until proven guilty" is appropriate here. Perhaps in a court of law. They've proven themselves guilty to my satisfaction. I can understand giving these scumbags the benefit of the doubt.. but I don't have a heck of a lot of doubt anymore.

In regards to the "false prophet".. like father, like son.. I think it is pretty safe to assume falsehood. "we're PREVAILING.." "We inform our people about EVERYTHING, soups to nuts.." "It was a one time affair.." practically everything that came out of the P.R. "man's" mouth was a falsehood, or extreme exaggeration.. and many followers didn't even know about the lawsuits and such, until they were blindsided here. "we're taking GOOD CARE of the mrs.." "it was a FAMILY DECISION.." jp pipes up.. "hey, why didn't they ask ME???" I still think this isn't too far off the beaten path as regards to false prophets. Like vic, his "leaders" were pretty well adept in perpetrating falsehood. I believe this is one of the hallmarks of a false prophet.

Yeah.. but it does have a little relevance. They didn't hold the words and threats of this "prophet" or "man of gawwd", regarding the treatment of his wife with much regard, did they? "Gawwwd have mercy on ya if you don't take care of Dotsie right.." They went to the lawyers, weasled their way out, citing evey legal reason to put her out.. Prophet? Even "his own" people disagree, if not in words, in action..

But that's the mark of "leadership" doncha know.. this was typical in der vey as well.. I wonder if upper management likes to put people with these kind of disorders in charge of "normal" people, if not merely to drive them nuts..

Yeah.. the marble "teacher". looked like the little replica.. I thought.. didn't they have a full size version of it there at one time? "thingy".. my english prof would roll in his grave if he wasn't still alive.. No, it was bronze. I think, anyway.. :)

I dunno why some have the fixation to keep digging him up to begin with.. "Thank GAWWWD for da MAN dat taught us da word.." Imagine..walking along, minding your business.. there he is, AGAIN. Propped up in his "teacher's" outfit.. striking resemblence to the thingy in the auditorim (if it is still there).. I think some are giving quite a few posters a "hobby" of sorts.. beat the darn corpse with a shovel, and try to make sure it's really dead before it gets interred yet once again. I'll agree.. it's the same thing, over and over and over.. Only thing I can think.. if someone is so insecure that they need his moggish approval, well after death.. you really deserve better..

That may be good advice, but it may be kinda hard to do, when folks keep digging him up from the fountain and lavish more love, attention, praise and worship on him than when he was still alive..

Honestly, loy and crowd picked up where vic left off. The brow-beating, that is. Oh, she didn't stay with twi until her death. She was DUMPED in her old age..

I dunno.. I just see the point of why God almighty desires glory every time someone flushes a toilet.. Take a "man" like the vicster.. his MINISTRY depends on invoking some supernatural event and cause, and later.. you find the event didn't even occur. Snow on gas pumps, an audible voice.. trains and busses snowed in.. If these events didn't occur.. I can only think of two possible explanations. one of them ISN'T that vic was really a mog of sorts.

I dunno. I clean the toilet sometimes, and I can't exactly put a tag on who gets the praise for that either.. it isn't exactly a pleasant job.. but if somebody doesn't do it, it just won't get done..

You know, for SOME people, this should carry some real criminal penalties..

Sometimes you just can't win.. Customer, standing next to the "no, we do not work on tube televisions. we only work on televisions manufactured after 1970" So you work on old tube t.v.'s? Me: NO. They are too old. Customer: Well, it's just a little problem. It keeps setting off the smoke detector in the apartment. Probably would take ten minutes for you to repair it.. Me: No, I don't repair them. I can't get the parts, besides, they are too old to be worth the cost of me even LOOKING at them.. Customer: Well, I inherited this one from my great aunt Lois. Did I tell you, it has been in the family for over fifty years? Uncle Donald used to fix it once a month. It just took a tube or two.. Me: No, I don't repair old tube televisions. They don't make the tubes for them any more. If it is fifty years old, could I suggest that you donate it to the local museum?? Customer.. No no no. Not without it working properly.. besides, you could write off the repair on your taxes as a form of public contribution. You DO have somebody do your taxes, do you not? me: "gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaghhhhhhh!!???!!!!" So.. you try the alternative. Customer, standing next to the "we don't repair televisions made before 1970". I hear you repair old televisions.. Me: SURRRRRRRE. Bring it on in! later: "well, it will cost you $985.00. (and please just take it and just go away..) Customer: "Hmm. Well, let's go for it.." Me. "Gaaaaaasaaaaaaaaghhhhhhhhhhhhh" This dialog is pretty close to the facts..

Who says they are good tomatos?

Well, I can understand. With all these tomatos, a person does have a certain need to know in which general direction to lob them..

sometimes it is the opposite. Sometimes, the big guy just doesn't have it in his heart and conscience to beat the snot out of some poor over-demanding slob..

Naw.. they simply could NOT. It would have been an unplanned, unscheduled stop without their leadership, and leadership's leaderships approval, fraught with the perils that maybe, just maybe, they'd get a paper cut while placing the said "bless note" in the mailbox. So Dave, I wouldn't take it as a sign of disrespect. It was merely a sign of extreme ignorance, lack of potty training, and stupidity.

I tend to err in this direction.. but not to the extent of showing up late at meetings, putting off obligations, etc.. but under normal circumstances, I'll tell someone "no" several times politely before REALLY ignoring them.. :)

The current problem is.. most are not willing to sacrifice a little stinking individuality, or submit to the kind of intimacy (I'm not talking about sex..) that is required, without being directly faced with some kind of calamity. The closest I've found to this is at the university I attend. And the relationships appear casual.. but I don't think they really are. To those who are not prepared, I think it will be a nightmare. I do my best not be build or leave emnity with anybody..

All that is left is money.. and that's not going to last forever. What I wonder.. what are they going to do when they can't buy food.. or clothes.. or.. anything, for that matter.. gonna have to grow a whole new set of "skills" to persuade somebody to grow food and supply them with the minimum basic necesities of life..

Interesting. Kind of what I think sometimes.. it's the end of the world, depending on your point of view. Sometimes I have to ask myself, "what is the worst that can happen here.." and the actual consequences aren't really THAT bad.. but I think to others, trapped in some kind of illusion of riches or materialism, what's coming might be a nightmare..

Are you suggesting the hands off approach here?

I wonder how the poor staffers feel about this, trading one kind of nasty for another.. If he thinks he's gonna have some kind of grandiose lifestyle by having a finger thicker than rosie's loins.. yeah, I would say he's deluded. I wonder who's gonna have to pony up excuses when bricks without straw programs fail to get the desired results..

I don't know about vision of the mind.. but visualision of the light.. perhaps that is what may free the self from self.