Ham

I think that's assuming a lot.. what if this generation lost it's one shot at this deal.. You know.. you've got something at stake in this as well as everybody else.. :)

Just to clarify.. I'm not speaking of Greasepot per se..these are two living, breathing human beings in my town.. maybe three.. out of how many from the "good old days", who would even take the time to look me up? only thing I can say.. thank GOD my kids aren't caught up in the nonsense.. I can only imagine what it is like for families separated with this kind of nonsense. Some organization..

I agree. yep. try communicating with parents/children/family/"friends" still in that wretched organization. Or even caught up in the "renewed mind" attitudes.. I think some people don't have a clue.. With the exception of two individuals here, I can't say that I even have friends left from the organization.. the local "twit heads" are either still in, or trying to relive the old memories and attitudes of superiority. For me, it's not that I'd be wasting my time.. I just don't have anything to work WITH..

And apparently, there is not a way, or it is rather difficult to measure what WAS- in real concrete practical terms. This is the most concrete claim I've seen made yet. And even that, it is tempered with some realism. I feel partly that way, mainly because I already had some peace of mind, even in the middle of some rather harsh circumstances to begin with. Maybe this sounds strange.. but circumstances didn't really define how I felt about myself, whether my belief was based on "da word of gawd" or not. My version of this scenario is exposure to figures of speech and a little bit of greek. Had I not had some kind of introduction, would I EVER had picked up Bulllinger's work on figures, or other materials? Hard to say, probably not. But the REAL benefits, though documentable, are few.I was the only guy in Calc I who knew what the little symbols were.. I could even pronounce them properly. :) I agree. I think it is only a rather thin skin that houses the spiritual, to begin with.. someday, it very well may all be gone..

What I find very interesting.. people generally have a hard time coming up with or defining a real good solid "something" that it did for them.. at least that can be quantified, looked at, or handled.. What did we buy? It reminds me of an old guy who worked in the store I'm in.. he had his crowning achievment in his old store. This guy was sooo high pressure.. so ruthless, but polite.. a person just couldn't exactly dislike him.. :) His customer went home. An hour later, the customer called the sales guy.. "Ma*tin, what did I just buy?"

No, I think it literally means torturing doctrine, reminiscent of a scene out of the dark ages. They strap (or appropriately duct tape) the verse in question it to a chair, and beat it with a lead pipe, all the while demanding that it recant it's "heretical" beliefs. "Now, admit it.. Jesus isn't really God, is he.."

Sitting on tacks helped.. the looking "excited" part, that is..

Well.. happy birthday! Since it really isn't your birthday, but rather a "virtual" birthday, here is your present. It's, what else from the Squirrel, but a piece of virtual pecan pie. here are your virtual candles. Feel free to blow them out, if you can. We won't count them..

Hey, have to be serious about SOMETHING in life..

I did a count once.. for me, it was somewhere between forty and sixty times if I remember correctly. All that, and I'm STILL nuts.

Nasty? Now this LOOKS nasty, but some 27,000 people show up for what is likely the biggest food fight in the world.. Too late this year Bumpy, but if you're in France next August.. Valencia is but a stones throw, or should I say a tomato's throw away..

Nasty? Not me. I took a shower today. Besides, I'm cute, and cuddly wuddly. That is unless you withhold my ration of pecans.

The troubling thing about all this, at least to me.. how many times did I keep going back, buying the same daggone thing.. same class, over, and over, and over again.

well, sowy.. I'll foot the bill for the Immodium.. I was just trying to use language Oldies would understand.. :) One of the main advertisements for pfal was a promise of material abundance. "INCREASE (whose?) PROSPERITY" I think it was purely a bait and switch operation. Promise somebody abundance, and turn around and say "well, it's the SPIRITUAL abundance that is more important anyway.." Sell that which is concrete, deliver that which is abstract. Be like promising a paycheck at the end of the week, and then tell the guy on Friday "well, it's not so bad.. you can pretend having all the money you want.."

More likely though.. he is probably cleaning up hamburger all over the highway in Mystic, Connecticut..

Hmmmmm. I wonder where he is today.. Maybe he's trying to find his way out of a wet paper bag..

That's wonderful.. but I'd like to see what it did for people in the senses relm.

I think the other thread dealt with some pretty abstract concepts. People say, "yeah, I got born again.. got peace.. understand the word.. got a good feeling.." Whether they are true or not, I feel that a lot of the claims are pretty subjective. I am looking for something more concrete here. Specifically.. HOW did it help? What did it actually DO? Did you make a million bucks with "the magic of believing.." or hard work? On an honest, practical level, about all the class did for me was to encourage me to learn a little Greek.. and figures of speech. My reading comprehension at the time didn't need any help. Any other "benefit" I got from it can only be described in rather abstract terms. The "other" thread has page upon page of abstract claims, and many equally abstract disclaimers. I'd just like folks to consider and share what real TANGIBLE "results" they actually got out of da class..

I dunno.. for me, I abandoned friends, family, teachers, school, and academics in general to follow the "word as it has not been known since the first century". That is one way to solve the "conflict".. it all seemed to be a magic wand, which made all of the problems just go away. Those in da ministry accepted me for who and what I was, for a while.

Perhaps.. Just thinking.. a fifty some year old guy, jumping up and down shouting out words like "artios" and "exartizo" is kinda "geeky" is it not? Actually I didn't learn any real Greek in the class, technically speaking. That came later, looking at Bullinger's stuff, and lexicons.. I was the only guy in math or physics who could properly pronounce the Greek symbols. people were impressed..

Actually, yes.

I think the short answer is "yes".. :)

I'm sure with the right kind of money, he could get the victors to lash out a little promotional tune.. *ahem, cough, cough, ahem..* *I'm selling some land....* *well under the tide......* *I'll let it go cheap...* *and then I'll go hide.. do do do do..*

"Hurry, hurry hurry.. special today, today onlay... one wet suit and air tank with each purchase.. hurry, hurry, hurry.."

Soooo.. where is *mr* gear now.. maybe. hmmm.. maybe.. maybe he's in Newport Rhode Island, busy finishing a real estate transaction, selling a piece of vacation property a mere fifty feet below the Atlantic Ocean. Well, it would be more honest than selling a re-do of pfal..