Ham

Faithfulness is in the details, in action, not word.. A lot of this reminds me of an old "friend".. "GRRRRRR, don't you DARE touch MY righteousness.." not that I'm perfect either, but all I had were a few questions along the practical side of life.. I think righteousness, which should be a given for a "minister" who just MIGHT have a few problems.. isn't a cloak that can be put on, and put off.. time to teach: cloak on.. time for drambuie, young girls.. cloak off.. I think righteousness is not a cloak to be worn.. if it is real, if it makes a difference, it's a cloak which wears the individual. A false minister can be pretty good at changing wardrobe..

soooo.. where's Gear.. Maybe now, just maybe.. he's busy witnessing door to door and in malls in Hackensack, New Jersey, trying to put together a new class..

hmm. Well.. maybe if the "baby" is forty eight years old, weighs 257 pounds.. maybe it doesn't NEED the bathwater. Doesn't need tossed out necessarily, but it would be nice if it got a job and it's own residence..

I dunno.. people like vic make me question the efficacy, if not the validity of the new birth and redemption. I mean.. is redemption such a SMALL thing.. and the new birth SO ineffective, that a *man* can simply carry on worse than before, but now! He can preach the bible.. At best I think they are trying to pollute the Lord's blood..

True.. maybe "they" were right, evil is like a parasite.. the organization really exists because of the generosity and longsuffering of others. They could take such a substantial beating from Bullinger publication trust, Kenyon, etc., etc.. maybe people who DO take the bible seriously just don't have the heart to beat the snot out of a little do nothing, take all organization..

No, I think it was Clarence. I thought the name was familiar.. but apparently he's not related..

nor I Corinthians 13, for that matter..

I wonder why they picked this particular group out of the many thousands using the words "the" and "way" for their group. Probably the smallest I'd imagine. Gotta "prevail" somehow.. unless they consider this their new outreach program.

Are they ex-way?

Makes me wonder.. where is the logic in all of this? If it's the end of the world, the streets are going to melt, the elements dissolve, existence terminate.. where is a person to go to, even if they are properly informed, to begin with? Outer space? It's like the guys in the eighties, that thought der ministry, der verd of v.p., if not the whole world was going to burn down. So what to do? Ah.. we'll just duplicate tapes, so when the end of the world DOES come, we'll have.. what.. tapes. I'd spend my last few hours PERHAPS a little differently..

maybe he had a very very good memory..

Even oldies is a blessing in disquise. I once thought that he might be some kind of psychologist or something, posing as an object for people to take their frustrations out on.. Intentional or not, the effect seems to be the same sometimes..

Maybe a question. How long have you been out? I've been out since 1996. Only within the last year have I been able to listen to people sing "holy, holy holy..... one God in three persons..." without having a negative reaction. But as far as shunning over a different belief is concerned: maybe it is the best thing to happen. You know right away, you've left one cult for another. It may sound pessimistic.. but I don't look for the kind of friendships that I THOUGHT I had in twi. As real as they seemed, the "fellowship", it proved to be an illusion anyway. Sometimes I look for something a lot deeper.. but most people can't go there.

true perhaps. But what about the rest of the organization? There's howie, and then vice pres don. They ended up signing some stuff claiming how bad boys they were, how unfaithful.. that they'd try to do better.. as far as gears suggestions were concerned. I think don had the most sense of the three though. Were they all nuts? That would make sense.. an "institution" with the "patients" in charge.. still are I think. It took some, say what.. almost TWENTY YEARS to realize that they were following a madman? I'm thinking of A*en L*cht, and others. "We finally realized we were following a madman." The rest of the "trustees" never got it. Stood with loy to the edge of civil proceedings flavored with the hint of legal ones..

the old man shoulda had the victors lash out this one.. * I'm building a bridge...* * not a dance floor... * * loy don't wear tight tights....* * lest I show you what for.. do do do do.. *

I bet it would have made his "teacher" rather darn proud.. learned the lessons quite well. Can you even imagine.. even with all of vic's training, they swallowed their very own kool-aide.. what a con man.. now I could really imagine the old mogster stroking out,, watching "the *man* who came after" him, leaping about in very tight tights..

You know, it just HAS to be a spur in rosies side that somebody is probably making more off of pfal than her "precious" organization.. I can see her grimacing, sweat running down between her ears, because they are so close together.. "OFF WITH HIS HEAD... oops, wrong administration.."

The only reason I'd see to "obsess" over the word "piracy", is that it paints *mr* gear as a PIRATE. I think that is a weak description of his true nature, based on what several posters have experienced with this character. Plus, he reduced the then "trustees' to tears, believing that they were primarily resposible for ole "doc" vic's death.. really- that their "unbelief" was what KILLED the "master".. sent loy off on a fit on unheard of insanity.. I wonder if der vey could make the claim that they were not mentally capable at the time to be responsible enough to sign..

I remember a couple of guys putting on trench coats, sneaking off, renting a hotel room for a weekend, taking all of vic's audio materials they could lay their hands on, a high speed tape duplicater, a kazillion blank cassettes, and running off as many copies as they possibly could. This was actually PRETTY close to the truth.. maybe minus the trench coats. the justification was that they didn't want ole vic's material to get "buried". One of the guys said they went to the hotel so they could do this a little more clandestinely, they were afraid somebody would catch them if they did it at home.. no joke. Sounded kinda nuts to me..

So.. where's chris geer.. hmmm. maybe.. just maybe.. he's on a one hundred day pilgramage, hitchiking through Death Valley in the summer, in search of the holy mecca of his master, Pikes Peak Seminary..

A real lamb of God doesn't eat mutton..

*huff, huff, huff..* Sorry, shoot me if you want, but I'm just in one of those moods..

I don't know about anybody else.. I really have prayed.. "don't let me die while I'm this damn ignorant.." :) The prayer is still in the "hopper'..

It is rather easy to "deceive" a seventeen year old, even an eighteen year old, looking for a few answers, genuine friendship.. easy to say, "so NOW your'e so spiritual.." I think the answer is, yes. One of my ham friends, never involved with der vey has an apt description: Young and Dumb. "God, I know I was young and dumb, forgive me for being so damn naive.." I've actually prayed something like this.. :)

Hmm. Baby worse than the bathwater.. forget six shades of blue and black.. if the water is a dark brown, it is very likely that an individual was not washing a genuine "baby".. If it floats, perhaps it's a baby. If it sinks, well.. "Mister, you can cuddle it, dress it, try to feed it.. but that isn't any baby you've got there.." sorry, carry on.. :)