Ham

Sure I'm "thankful"- but this deep truth, good grief- its simple enough for a pre-schooler to understand. Not that that's a bad thing though. Says a great deal about the intellect of current leadership. They can't even get that one right.

Don't entirely agree, maybe partly. I think its more of like carrying around a forty pound club, patrolling an evil, pathetic, abusive thieving, lieing, cheating and stealing prairie dog town, just waiting for one of the lousy SOB's to stick its head up and promote just one bit more of their stinking, lifeless, useless, and actually harmful poison to the unwary good prairie dogs on the other hill. Hey, I know its not the dream job of a lifetime, but somebody has to do it.. Viceral hatred is just going a little bit too far. Maybe just a LITTLE bit.

Not true for all here. Some actually hold a glimmering of hope that the lousy SOB's will finally wake up someday and do something right.. So far it has been not so many- a couple of high leadership "defected" but that's about it. They need someone with enough love, balls, and an iron stomach to go in and clean the place out. A real takeover, a real coup.

I don't wonder. No need to- there really is nothing to wonder about. Nothing new, same boring, drab, lifeless stuff. Hasn't changed in years. Same methods of bait and switch, same abuse and intimidation, same stupid doctrine- perhaps more legalistic and controlling than their forefather, but nothing really new, at all. Same programs, different names. Just worse than the ones they had before. They NEED to change, and in a major way, and don't even know it. I would LIKE to see something NEW come out of that organization. Something good for a change. But I'm not holding my breath. I'll admit though, it is amusing every once in a while to watch them try to ressurect their boring, drab, lifeless stuff that hasn't changed in years into some kind of new light.. Kind of the philosophy of build a better mouse trap and they will come.. but the people of the world refuse to come flocking to their door. Wonder why.. Three vice prezzes instead of one- whoopie. Just another vain effort to "revitalize" their sad, sad religion. Big stinking deal. But its amusing. They really think this little move is gonna breath some fresh breath of life into that hopelessly dead carcass. I think the people that HAVE changed are here- and other places outside of that pathetic existence. Even in the offshoots.

But I am not trying to paint them all with the same brush either. J*hn L*nn's organization- disagree with them doctrinally, practically, or not, one thing I think could be said- they are VERY meticulous about where they get their material from. They document thoroughly. That's the impression I get from some of the stuff I have seen coming out of that organization. They still think they carried a gold mine of goodness out of der vey though..

Well, I have. But that was not even quite a suggestion, just a point. Some establish their heritage based on what they think they were taught by veepee- fine by me if that's what they want to do, but the body of doctrine they embrace was developed by a more than a handful of other people. Why continue the plagiarism, when you can have a fresh new start? Not a criticism, just a point.

Belle, when I went to visit my brother this year, the yellowtail flowed like water.. I think they have a two finger limit. If they hold up two fingers, and you can't count that high, you've probably had a LITTLE too much.

Well.. I dunno. But I think throwing away the two drink limit probably fixes everything..

Reward and purpose it is perhaps.. but I could hardly call it joy..

Belle, I have been out now for nine years! Finally remembered when I left. And it was about this time, roughly the week after the fourth. And I've gone to see family for a reunion on the fourth of July week every year since. It is still the highlight of the year.

Now I think we are talking the reward: what it is not. It surely is not financial abundance and stability. Lessee. Fifty some years old, still grinding your foot at a second rate job or "full time" corps position, no savings, no house. Your reward is more work. You will work until the day you die. I am suprised that they don't have a sign above the entry at the corner of W. Road and highway 29, "Work will set you free".

Maybe that's why they don't have a real big following too. Just not "comfortable" for someone just leaving TWI..

But what about the offshoots that are NOT offshoots? I am acquainted with at least two, and they do not command any significant following- but they do not resemble TWI in any way, shape or form. They like functioning in local churches. The persons involved have thrown everything away- or view doctrinal differences as being inconsequential in the big scheme of things. They could care less if you believe in the trinity, believe the dead are alive, and refuse to use guilt and intimidation to bully you into accepting their viewpoint. There might be a different kettle of fish altogether..

Exie, just don't eat the whole box in one sitting..

Congratulations Belle! Isn't it really nice to take a VACATION and see RELATIVES. I hope you don't miss your cube farm too much..

Well, I was thinking of something a little more subtle, or maybe not so subtle.. The superior claims.. that it is the greatest understanding of the bible since the earth cooled.. still lives on. As if his version was an actual improvement upon the truth. The attitude that "I've forgotten more about... than you'll EVER know.." The self-abasement and thankfulness for ole doc vic's selfless service that gave it all to us.. that somehow, we would be going to hell in a handbasket if it were not for his herculean efforts.. I think this state of mind exists in all of the offshoots, ranging from a tame recognition of the guy who "brought them da verd", to outright fanatical devotion. I am beginning to really hate religion.. And it is not limited to Der Vey, not by any means. Look at the Lutherans.. many of them consider Martin Luther to be a saint. Maybe he was just a product of his times, but some of the things he did and wrote are despicable. Huss and many others are just as much their "father in the word" so to speak. In the offshoots, I'd like to see some more recognition to those that "brought them da verd". What about Bishop Pillai, George Lamsa, Kenyon, Bullinger, Leonard, Stiles, Walter Cummins, and DOZENS of others that are worth mentioning? These men and women were just as responsible for giving us the Word. And I would like to see everything documented properly, all the T's crossed, all the i's dotted.. all credit given where credit is due. The syllabus for their latest and greatest teaching should have probably five or six pages set aside for works cited. At least that's how it is supposed to be done in the real world. I think they skipped a few steps along the way to claiming superior knowledge. Don't get me wrong about this though, I still love them, they are brethren.

I dunno.. I kind of didn't "fellowship" with anybody right after leaving, at least not in a religious or church sense. I got a little more involved in the community though. Community organizations were what loy targeted with a lot of venom, and I thought that they might be the first logical place to go. They weren't NEARLY as "devilish" as he portrayed. Really- I had to go see for myself.

Exie, I think its one of those big office rooms divided up into cubicles, but I could be wrong. I never heard them called that, but at least it would make sense. Belle, YOUR turn, heh heh.

Whatever it is, I would like a couple of helpings of it.. But I "kind of" get it. Really- love is what motivated God to give. And He wants a pretty intimate relationship with us. And sex is about as intimate as you can get. I dunno.. I don't exactly feel "screwed" in all of this. Still thinking about all of this though..

Yep, you said it! Probably true though. After so much stupidity, you could probably sell them such a brush to brush their teeth with.. Oops, I said THAT..

Yep Coolchef. The interesting thing.. the people that I helped in the most significant way, they never committed to the mininstry- thank God. They got what God held out for them, and moved on. In this I am thinking of three specific incidences. One of them was a real, iron clad, undeniable miracle. And it was just for the person that was there at the time. Come to think of it, Da Vey was never even mentioned.

Belle, I did a yahoo search for Huriahulla. Guess the only place in the universe it showed up at..

The one scary part of it to me, is some of them carry the legacy of PFAL- some STILL think it is the verd like not revealed since the first century. That kind of exclusivism does seem to be a rather good breeding ground for abuse.

Funny, but true. Really. Give it twenty, twenty five years or so.. She is not the same gal you married, or the one you thought you did. I think that actually can be kind of fun! Who says marriage is supposed to be boring..

HCW, I'd wear that as a medal of honor..