Ham

But back to PFAL- if it is equal to "the Word"- you gotta eat it all. "we should come to the realization that we owe our very lives to the ministry that taught us the word". Any yes, that one just happened to be printed in "the sacred text". Don't like the taste of that? Maybe you could use lots and lots of ketchup. MY bible says the lord paid for me, not some blood sucking "ministry".

Well.. there is not a whole lot that I find objectionable in the intermediate class, but at least to me, what I would consider the real "leaven" to mess up the whole lump came in one little statement: "we should come to the realization that we owe our very lives to the ministry that taught us da verd, blah blah blah..". Pure friggin evil. Sure, there was good in the class, and we became the best tonguers and interpreters of tonguers this side of the mississippi. But look at the cost. And like all the other good wayfers, I just sat there and listened to that statement without raising the slightest objection. "Hey, I thought that only the Lord owned me". After all, he is the one that paid the price. This was the leaven that really messed up the lump. By the time you were in the advanced class, you were CONVINCED of it. You owed your life to the ministry. Thank God I did not go corpse.

As far as the niceness concept.. I think a lot of it was missing in TWI, at least as I define it. Sure, I disagree with other people almost every day of the week. I just don't hate them any more. In TWI, it was easier to label someone as deluded or possessed if they dared to disagree. Too easy. Honestly, it took me some time to come to the realization that if somebody believed something different, or voiced a different opinion, that it was not necessarily of da debil. Really- it took some time away from Da Vey for a lot of the stupidity to wear off. I have found that I can disagree with most people on almost any subject and still be friends. Heck, even Mike- can't hate him. The old TWI "just let da debil have em" - don't even consider that, any more. Poetry works.. heh heh.

I don't consider it an entire waste either. The problem was just what it BECAME, or what it was promoted as. With PFAL vaunted to the status of "godhood"- and I'm thinking more of the whole series- if you didn't get results- if you couldn't sense every darn spurt this side of the mississippi, or if you were chronically sick for ANY reason, woe unto you. It surely can't be the doctrine's fault. Even though results or experiences were not guaranteed, they were EXPECTED. That's the whole problem with this whole "PFAL is God-breathed, and perfect" concept. No results? The problem MUST lie with you. And if the leadership can't figure out the problem- you must be possessed or something. I think it did not turn out to be the magical formula that guaranteed success that it was touted to be- it just did not live up to it's reputation. But it did answer about eighty five percent of any question I ever did have about the bible. And the few decent keys to help me just plain read it were OK. A nice bible class that I got some truth out of would be a good assessment. Some truth- that I paid, and paid, and paid for again and again. There was a time when we would answer questions, or at least try to get the answers for unanswered questions. At times, in the foundational class, I saw the head honcho go over twenty or more questions, without berating the asker. I observed that to become less and less of an occurence. Seemed at my advanced class, my impression was that people were afraid to ask questions. At least one I know of was sent home for doing so- she had some objection to the "myth of the six million" concept. Twig times consisted of mainly rehashing the last session or two. No real questions were asked, only review to see if you're really "getting it". Just to make sure you could spout out all of the definitions right, retemorize more verses- it was very well "programmed".

Yep- keep at it- for me, the real bad urges only lasted about thirty seconds at a time. Had to quit coffee for a while. The morning coffee screamed for it's cigarette companion.

But considering the boob of the subject here- considering it's prior history, you could use it for self-defense.

I quit eighteen years ago.. no regrets about quitting.

Well, I hope it's the right thing to say: congratulations!

You could have had some real fun with that accent. After speaking in tongues- "to be, or not to be, that is da question..."

Greetings, likewise. I don't critique PFAL. Took it about sixty too many times. Read the materials for hours on end. Years and years- don't hate, don't agree with it all, got some good out of it, but I just don't want any more. I'm not an "unbeliever"- still read the bible and "fellowship with believers"- just nice to be able to do so without Doc Vic's accent echoing in my head..

I dunno about all of this. It is kind of easy to make this kind of assessment sitting back in your easy chair in the good old U.S.A. What about Christians in other parts of the world, our brothers and sisters- beaten, impoverished, kept illiterate- and worse? Is this all their fault because they somehow lack the power, or don't have "the magic keys"? I don't think so. Are they somehow less spiritual in God's eyes? Remember- they are BRETHREN, trying to do the best they can in the circumstances that they find themselves in. Apparently, prosperity, as it has been defined- or alluded to, does not carry the guarantee of being filthy rich, or even being treated "nicely". The only thing that differs between us and them is CIRCUMSTANCES. Will I have to die for my beliefs? Probably not- but some of them- very likely. They are more than conquerers- the circumstances do not determine their beliefs or actions. I wonder who really is richer.

That's the main reason I left, or more properly, refused to jump through any more hoops or conditions in order to be involved. No power left there. Everything seemed so carnal to me- the forever never ending scheduling, cleaning, going here, going there- meetings and more meetings- all with no profit. More and more "attention to details". No "ministering". The larger meetings seemed artificial to me- like a stupid religious infomercial. Our function turned from sharing and/or caring to that of a carnival barker. My opinion- people more and more had to be conned into taking the classes, and they did not stick around da ministry after (or even if) they finished it. And it got worse after I was gone. More scheduling, including approval from your overseers- more fleshly ordinances. No power or spirit anymore- gotta do something I guess. A lot of the corps were sincere before- really wanted to help. They evolved into meddlers and troublers. Obviously, since you were not successfull in analyzing every fleshly detail in life, they were the answer.. oh well. Toward the end of it all, I was not really impressed with Loy's "handling" of scripture. His teachings and material seemed to reek of legalism- at least to me. The rise and expansion book- way too much- too many details, too much stuff to "do" and not "believe". "Lets see, am I doing this, and that, and that..." Turned from grace and love into law. No wonder we couldn't minister any more.

Full mellow hippie- probably closer to the truth. Actually, I was only partly nice in TWI. The old branch guy thought even then I was too nice. Now I must just be wallowing in niceness.. heh heh. I think some of us who thought PFAL was a means to an end- the idea that we could understand the bible- got something out of it. But it was highly overrated. No longer was it a nice little set of keys, it turned into some kind of magic pill that could make you "superbeliever", able to jump over the biggest spurts in a single bound. Cripe, it offered claims that only God Almighty had the right to make.

"I've forgotten more about da holy spit than you'll ever KNOW."

Forgive me Satori.. I think reading "defocked" and "spit" in the same paragraph is what did it to me, heh heh.

"Praise da Lawd! We have another one!"

Yep. I was in a few of those "receiving the blessed holy spit" meetings. Followed behind the big kahuna. Heard him whisper in one guys ear, "come on.. wet your pants".

Well, if this turned up as da current poop among the innies, ole Rosie and gang could claim that indeed it was not whiz. It is leftovers from when god spit in their direction..

Well.. if God spit in your direction, you wouldn't get up, that's one thing. If the true god sloshed them out in the aisles, there is nothing you or I could do to get them up. Besides, he'd have to violate all the free will of the universe to make it spit in such manner. God does not possess spit, unlike the weekly advertised slain in da spit meetings. Has to be counterfiet spit. The "bad guys" just saving up gallons of spit for "the right moment". Besides, if you happened to walk by one of these slain in the spit folk and kick them, they'd all get up.

Just when you thought you saw it all- an infamous boob that faced possible charges of assault.. I wonder if the buyer has to register it with the State of Florida as a possible lethal weapon.

beatnik maybe.. not too frustrated. Now if I had to live off of the royalties of my "creations" I might be in real trouble. No, not beatnik. Maybe old hippie. A friend tells me beatniks weren't all that they were cracked up to be..

I wonder if she throws out the threat about leaving, you know- ANY fortune 500 company would have her..

Gruesome.. well, I'd have to see da color of da money first.. I still can count pretty well, too..

Well, I keep hoping.. would be nice to hear from him. It's been over twenty years.

Hey, I can go wacko too. I am usually harmless, just go off and do poetry.. one way of dealing with it, heh heh.