penguin

DUCK!!! Get better Psalmie!

In reply to Bliss: AMEN! I can't explain it or state it any better!

I agree with Morgan. I think a lot of miracles happened because God is so much bigger than we realize. I believe the deliverance I initially received was in spite of twi and due only to God honoring some well-meaning people's desire to love and serve Him. In the long run, twi did more damage to me personally than good. Also, I listened to this year's twi anniversary tape. gag Did you hear it Thin Lizzy? Did you catch the references made to how twi has taught its followers to get nice cars, college educations and buy houses without going into debt? I know you mentioned you were away for a bit--but I can assure you that those things have NOT really been taught, not if twits are honest with themselves. The most I have heard is that high school kids need to get scholarships to afford college. (Which doesn't help adults who need to get degrees to have decent jobs.) I have heard you should but not the "how-to" twi seems nicer now--but the control is still there, just more subtle. They know they can't be blatant.

Happy Birthday Paw! Thanks for helping us find freedom!

Happy Thanksgiving Paw! Thanks for keeping the doors open here. To all my fellow diners, have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

Catcup is right. Learned Helplessness is a very accurate term refering to twit world. I remember my first attempt to go to a church--I sat in the parking lot for 20-30 minutes almost paralyzed with fear before I would go in. Gee! Then I found out there really was "something else" out there and that the "something else" was in many aspects oh so much greater than twi! Oldies, I never said people weren't welcome to pursue what they wanted. But it is very obvious that for a "Christian" organization, twi doesn't do or act very Christ-like! I think no one realizes twi for what it is really is UNTIL after they leave and step away if they ever get brave enough to do it.

Oldies, Folks may still "officially" have free will, but most I have encountered have fully swallowed twi bull.... that "they are the only true household of God", that "If you leave God's protection and blessings will be off of your life" and that "there is nothing else out there." Most innies I have seen are paralyzed by fear and belief of the above doctrines. Many are unhappy but don't believe they can really do anything about it. Others continue to keep themselves "in the dark" and in denial of how dead twi is.

What the Hey, Not that I have much to offer in this debate we have going on, but your last post made me have a flashback of reading loyboy's book he wrote about Acts. Sounded awfully familar...does anyone else beside twi teach that Acts was a transitional book? (I am asking this sincerely since I don't have a clue.) :blink:

That's the exact point that really gets on my nerves. That there has never really been a reconsideration of what lcm taught--considering what he was DOING while teaching!

Not exactly what JKB started but I have been thinking... I was talking to someone who mentioned that some twiers changed drastically just by attending ROA one year. I think about other classes/events that people attended and wonder how it affected them. One thing I have begun to realize is that at some point I turned all of my emotions off with the exception of anger and frustration. I read that that can happen under extreme pressure and tension or traumatic events. Now I am wondering which event(s) could have triggered it and how to turn my "good" emotions back on. I am assuming I truned off my emotions either during a face melting session or just the accumulation of pressure during in rez until being kicked out of corpse.

Eagle, I hope you don't mind me asking, but which offshoot? You can PM if you don't want to post, but it would be beneficial to me to know. Thanks

In addition to the lie that "there is nothing else out there" beside twi, is the concept that you have to believe 100% the SAME as everyone else in your organization/church/ministry! Right now there are plenty of people in twi that do not believe everything taught by BOD. And you will come across different people who disagree on different things. I have found that it is okay to believe differently from others in the same group. And there are plenty of churches that even keep things decent and in order when it comes to manifestations! There is no benefit to having only a intellectual perception of God--find a ministry with some real life and love in it! Where is that REAL vital relationship with God that twi used to talk about having? I have only seen it outside of twi. There is a lack of balance and common sense in twi. (Taking a valid principle but then stretching it too far. It can be subtle but its there.) Look at what Jesus Christ actually did--since we are supposed to be "followers of Jesus Christ" like twi definition says. The churches and other ministries are carrying out his words and works better than twi. And Bliss, isnt it amazing to see how much control we allowed leader.... to have over our lives without even realizing it? It is so exhilerating to breathe the air of freedom.

And just think! Real soon their will be another foundational class for all the faithful twits to take! I wonder, is there anyone here who will be able to let us know how "great" it is?

Well, I am still figuring stuff out. Paul only remembers baptizing Steve's house, Crispus and Gaius--but for some reason he baptized them! It cannot be refering to people believing on his words since obviously more people believed on Jesus Christ from Paul's teachings than just the ones mentioned. IMHO it must be that other leaders/believers helped to baptize new believers and Paul mostly focused on teaching the Word. And I think its quite a twist/rationalization from twi/vpw/lcm whoever to say well, it doesn't say they baptized with water. (Check out Acts 8 with Philip where water is mentioned FOUR times btw) Also if it was baptism by/with holy spirit as twi tried to teach...that would have to be God's department not mans if someone was to be baptized that way (ie between God and the new believer)

Most are not staying around any longer because...... TWI is all about control control control Too bad most don't see it until they leave, or only see an inkling of it.

Raf, surely this was sarcasm, right? I gave twi a modest 27

:o Happy happy birthday Belle!!! Have a great day!

I guess we should ask ourselves, if we believe we will appear before Jesus Christ at the bema, if we would rather tell him I rightly divided my King James Bible OR be able to say what we actually DID to help others. Oh and I don't really think Jesus Christ will be too pleased that all we did was talk to those in need instead of actually giving them warmth, food etc

Amen Mercedes!

For those of us who were WOW vets, Advanced Class grads, Way Corpse, Way Disciple Alumni, etc What did you do with all those crazy nametags? Did you ever put them to good use? :blink: My two cents: 1. Used a nametag as a screwdriver. 2. Used a nametag to draw a straight line. 3. My favorite--used nametag as a ice scraper!!

Hey Dawna, Yes I have been to a couple of churches since leaving. One I have really liked I drove past repeatedly over many years until I felt "led" to go there. It is non-denominational. I like it because of the worship service and practical teaching. Not everything lines up to what twi taught, but I expected that. I glean what I can --They have a love for God and love of God towards people. They believe in what we call manifestations, and keep them orderly. The other one I went to was cold and the worship service was like watching a professional concert. No one in the church sang along with the band--they just sat and watched. Not the one for me! Some posters here go to Unitarian or Methodist. I haven't tried either of those yet. When the pastor says something I dont agree with, I replace the words in my mind to line up with what I know. Some things I havent been sure of, so I looked up in my Bible what they were teaching/doing. Lo and behold-twi was wrong! (lol--sarcasm--hint hint) If you desire to find a church where you can grow I am sure God can lead you in the right direction. It may take a few tries--I would recommend some of the books mentioned here in the forums like Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse so you know what you DON'T want and what warning signs you should look for. This church emphasizes a book called Boundaries by Cloud/Townsend which promotes "safe" relationships. Enjoy your journey! Penguin

Happy Birthday David! Have a great one!!

Too funny!!!!!! :0 :)

Lovematters, I have been to meetings where there was tongues and "interpretation" but done different than twi. It was one of those where one person sit and another person interpreted. I heard one such "interpretation" It was very edifying and in the 3rd person and had NO King James in it, unlike twi version that I was used to at the time. It was not affiliated with twi at all and was held in the basement of a Catholic Church. editted cuz I am sleepy :blink:

Remeber when vpw used to say, "It's the Word, the Word and nothing but the Word"? Well loyboy changed it to the ministry equals the Word and the Word equals the ministry (One years' Rock of Ages teachings explained that) Eventually it evolved into "The ministry, the ministry and nothing but the ministry" in practice anyway. Anyone have any observations along these lines? Any comments about vpw's original comments?