penguin

Lcm taught that only 6 manifestations were available in the OT/Gospels.

There are more escapees from 22wc-but not all hang out in the cafe. I know of several if you are looking for anyone in particular.

Less than a year ago it was LCM's version that was being taught.

Edawn, Sorry I don't realy have any new info that could be useful--and I think I threw away the way rag that focused on the homo situation. If I hear anything I will post it or pm you. And now y'all have way gb scrambling to destroy the incriminating tapes and transcripts!! lol

There were a few things I learned in twi that I apply BUT I could have learned them elsewhere in a much safer enviroment! For the most part the things that set twi apart may be good to know but don't really affect much of day to day living. (Example 4 crucified. Good to know but what is more important to know is that Jesus Christ died for me and made available forgiveness!)

I think Dr's teachings led us (especially in the 90's and beyond) to let twit leader.... take the place of who our Lord really SHOULD be. Every decision and behavior was supposed to be sanctioned by them --effectively making them our lord and leading us into idolatry.

Oh yes the ever-syrupy new family class. Adultery being wrong was mentioned about the same time as the bestiality point. I kind of figured they threw in the bestiality part to make us forget they actually said adultery was wrong or at least to downplay it some. :unsure: So, penguins are safe at twig-no threat of s*x huh? Oh and another exciting fun fact at new knoxville--their vey disciples should have finished their 6 month stint by now--I think there was a whopping 30 of them that got sent out in the fall. (many of them were required to as prerequisite to going in rez to the corpse) Woo hoo thats prevailing!

Please don't remind me!! One of the things that got me to wake up was listening to forbidden "Christian" music on the radio. I noticed how different the songs and lyrics were compared to the dull boring and selfish songs of way prod. And George, I think 90's Way Prod songs could be very easily played in hell and they wouldnt bother any. (The only songs that were halfway ok were the beats to some of M*ke M*rtins stuff--but lyrics were usually horrible)

(((Abi)) Thanks for sharing your story here. Ironically for me, it was the boyfriend who was a part of twi that continually forced himself on me.....not the high school football player I went to prom with. When I told my twig coordinators and asked their advice I was given no help. At that time I was 15 and he was 18.

HMMM I checked my notes..they are STILL saying they are in the "Decade of Prevailing." So, either Rosie forgot to change the theme, no one could come up with a different one, they realize that the last decade really did end in a thud so they are trying again or they are just trying to pretend that 1990-1999 didn't really happen.

djs I am glad you enjoy your fellowship. That's why we stayed so much longer. But we both had issues with what was happening at the root of twi, especially when it came time to write our abs check. It got to the point that i couldn't bear to write it out because of what it was supporting/helping to continue. We too kept looking for real change. We finally had to start to explore what else was out there. We found there were some places with just as much truth as twi--but with loving hearts and with real relationships with Jesus Christ. I also was floored when I attended a local church and was moved to tears during their worship service. It was a part of what I had been missing for so long, to be able to sing with real meaning and thankfulness to our Father. We are still in transition, but we had no idea how much control we had allowed twi to have in our lives until after we left. The amount of pressure that was lifted was amazing. What has really surprised me is the change in my children's lives in the short time we have been gone.

Thanks Paw for what you wrote.

We left because we finally realized that there was no real love in twi. Belle I would agree that the words and decibels used by loy in the 90's did communicate hate. (Though we didn't think so at the time.) I am still struggling with the super-critical judgemental point of view that I acquired during my time in twi. I also remember walking into a store and having this big feeling of relief flood over me. I was a "normal" person - someone who didn't have to be better than anyone else--someone that was just going to go shopping and enjoy myself. (It was a wierd realization after all those years of being told to witness while running errands lol)

Welcome to the cafe Mr. Pipes! And congratulations on your new found freedom. We didn't send any letter to the pres of twi when we left, but the few things we did point out as reasons to leave were knocked down as being not true by our region corpse. I think any corpse still left in twi -with maybe the exception of some of the newly graduated ones that have no presence that I am aware of at the spot--don't really think that any change is needed. (They think it has already happened.) They have been lulled to sleep by all the legalism and standards forced upon them. They are so busy they don't have time to think about some of the problems if they even see any of them. Bliss I would like to know the response!!

Happy birthday pipes!!! Have a great one!!

JWitt, Sorry you have had a bad experience at that church. I have been going to a non-denominational church for a few months and enjoy it a lot. I met the pastor pretty quickly after my first visit and talked with him regarding the trinity. (I have talked with an elder there too about it.) Both went along with believing in Jesus is the criteria to be born again and that people have different beliefs. Granted this pastor has several people in his church that used to be in twi. (Which I didnt know until after I met the pastor and he told me he was familiar with twi.) Several ex twiers are in varying degrees of counselling and leadership roles--and I know that some of them still don't believe in the trinity. I think a lot of us here at the cafe have learned that you need to look for the fruit in people's lives--which would definitely include what you were trying to focus on--but maybe that church doesnt. Hugs Penguin

Well, maybe I should clarify. twi ignored things like the 10 commandments and loving your neighbor as yourself. That to me these days is what helps us recognize sin. I agree that certain other categories that really wont matter in the long run are what twi defined as sin and made us feel like we didnt measure up. (But those ideas and standards are the ones I am eliminating!) (Ex. Impecably clean home---I go for the "lived in" look now. Doing every single suggestion by leadership. Not writing cheesy thank you notes for boring teachings. If something goes wrong I "missed it somewhere")

I guess you are correct--no "wretch" allowed in wayspeak. Now we don't need to walk around feeling like worms all the time, but when we sin, we need to call it sin, ask forgiveness, try to change and move on knowing God's grace is BIG and can cover all of our mistakes. twi just tried to block out recognizing our own sins and focused on grace. BOTH need to be in the picture for us to change and grow.

Congrats to the Cafe and to Paw Big thanks to everyone who has been posting and exposing the errors of twi. I know it has helped bunches of us really "see the light!"

I was thinking about this topic in my car today because the song, "Amazing Grace" came on the radio. I realized an example of twi's sin problem was in that song! Remember for at least 20 years the official sing along the way songbook had the word "soul" instead of "wretch" in the stanza "that saved a wretch like me" Very interesting, yes?

I was at the library and checked out that myspace site--aaack I could not be on it for very long. Glad they think they are happy, sad that they are being deceived. Remember that I was like that not too long ago and cant believe it. Thankful I am gone!!

Not in real life--though I had a nightmare about being served for a lawsuit by twi a couple of nights ago. Of course I also keep dreaming that I am somehow stuck at a twi meeting and more miserable than ever before. :blink:

I was around--he did "allegedly" say that homos were worthy of death. IMHO I believe he was honestly disappointed we were not living in the OT law time period since the homos would then qualify to be stoned to death. I also wondered what happened to deliverance being available?

OM Please remember to read the context when quoting me! I said, In this case I was not referring to not reaching out and helping others--because you are right we were always busy doing what twi told us would help people. My point was that our beliefs put most of the pressure on us to perform: 1. It was our believing that got focused on--not God's trustworthiness 2. We took the place of Jesus Christ so we didn't really have a relationship with him-we were filling in for him instead. 3. We told God what we wanted Him to do and often demanded it--like we knew what was best for us. Those are just 3 examples of what I meant by me-centered. Of course this was more the 1990's and 2000 something emphasis so maybe you may not have experienced this.

I have been thinking the last several days about what Jesus really went through to make available our forgiveness, redemption etc. When I was involved with twi, it was taboo to have anything with a cross on it (necklace, bible cover, whatever.) The reason given was that people focused too much on Jesus' death and not his resurrection. The point was also made about wearing a electric chair around your neck if Jesus had been killed that way. I am thinking that eliminating the presence of the cross (tree if some of you prefer) made it easier for us to not think about what he really went through. We maybe were reminded once a year. That would make it easier for us not to think about our sins and shortcomings if we conviently forgot about what our forgiveness really cost. That would make it easier for us to not be as concerned about our behavior, actions, lack of actually helping others, forgiving each other--whatever--if we didnt remember how Jesus gave himself for us. I have realized that remembering what he did helps to motivate me to change and actually follow him better. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? He is risen!!!!