T-Bone

Some great points OldSkool - and after mulling over what you said it got me thinking of TWI's tendency to whitewash anything that could tarnish vpw's legacy - whether it's his books or "shiny" example of a minister of God. This post is for those still in TWI , offshoots , and yes even the "new and improved" revival and reboot group or for that matter, anyone who thinks it's ok to recommend his books, reference his books, draw inspiration from his books or his "shiny" example. Something is so wrong when a supposedly Christian organization elevates the importance of protecting, smoothing over the rough edges, correcting or whatever whitewashing is necessary concerning vpw's "writings" instead of exposing and correcting how vpw ....or any of his admirers - have treated their most committed followers. ...."but he taught us the word like it hasn't been known for centuries..." you say. Really?!?! Maybe one should reevaluate that - yes, exactly what is "the word" that vpw often referred to. I guess he can't be referring to the scriptures like "love thy neighbor as thyself" which for centuries most Christians have known as being being the second great commandment and in my opinion is the other half of the gold standard for Christianity - it's what God values - love for God and love for your neighbor. If there's any concern for getting back to the basics - then what about the passages in Corinthians, Timothy, and Peter, which for centuries have been the basis for how real God-fearing churches set standards of operation ....like how to deal with unchecked sexual misconduct that can ravage an entire congregation ....or how to qualify - or if need be - disqualify those in leadership roles. Apparently vpw and his staunch admirers have taken some kind of "hypocritical oath" - so that they're above all that. And they are supposed to be ministers of God !!!!! Why do some animals eat their young? I don't know...and why are there some religious leaders who persecute, exploit, and ravage their own congregation and still think they are serving God ...Jesus talked about something along those lines in John 16:2. Just saying...maybe some folks need to recalibrate their scale of values.

caught the last 15 minutes of it - didn't know it was on....anyway - when she's reading a letter from her Mom and the gist of the letter was that her Mom did not like her talking bad about Barnard who victimized her daughter for years! She made some comment along the lines of how powerful an influence Barnard has over his followers - wow - no $hit !!!!! I think being a cult survivor myself gives me a weird dual mental processor sometimes - in that I can understand cult tactics from two different angles: first and foremost - from a sane person's viewpoint- all I can say is how horrible...despicable...and almost unbelievably evil someone like Barnard can be While at the same time I can understand the blinding and emotionally-numbing mindset a cult leader will foster in his followers - that can even subvert the natural familial instincts of a parent - like her mom siding with the sexual predator of her own child...I can understand how that mindset is so powerful - but I also think that too is horrible...despicable...and almost unbelievably evil - that a cult leader will instill unnatural familial-like "instincts" in followers ....yeah vpw "our father in the word" - not on your life - I ran away from my TWI "home" to escape from that evil step-dad. i must say she is a very courageous and strong woman for speaking out about this stuff ! And I'm glad she has a very supportive aunt too.

Ha ! You said "Wierdhole" Is that similar to a black hole? Black hole: a region of space having such an intense gravitational field that nothing can escape or when used informally refers to a place where people or things, especially money, disappear without a trace. Fortunately when followers of TWI & splinter groups wise up to cult tactics they get all Interstellar and bust outta that "wierdhole" or its surrounding satellites.

What you're saying may be similar to what some folks experience - who are so shocked they go into denial when they're confronted with vpw's plagiarism, hypocrisy, licentious lifestyle, falsehoods of experiences and credentials. Denial is a common reaction , of course; but rather than thinking of it as a hopeless mental trap - freedom is possible; sometimes it takes a stiff upper lip to face reality - maybe in bite size pieces though - and to consider that uncomfortable feeling of letting go of certain delusions as growing pains in developing critical thinking. The mind does have an amazing ability to deceive itself and perhaps that's especially true when one is so enthralled with an idea that they are unwilling to give it up.

Boy, I’ll say ! and that reminds me - I also chased after a one trick pony for 12 years, whose only area of expertise was being a charlatan.

Thanks for that Byrds tune, Waysider - it's funny how me being an old city boy took such a likin' to it - my best friend and drummer in my first band turned me on to that...love it

ya know...you got me thinking - i wonder if some test patterns were designed by a grad who was very impressed with the session on the four crucified

Thanks for that link, WordWolf – pretty neat site, I had to bookmark it. By the way, I noticed they have epub versions of eBooks on that site - I bought ePubSoft awhile back – I think I paid $40 and it allows me to remove the DRM (digital rights management from digital media) – - hey, before anyone gets all up in arms about that I just wanted to say that the purpose of DRM is to prevent the unauthorized redistribution of digital media; I don’t resell or give away any eBook that I convert to epub; what I use it for is to convert to a PDF format some small technical references like Ugly's Electrical References that I’ve purchased in eBook format; I email them as a PDF to myself – for the times where I don’t have my smart phone/Kindle app but I do have a computer to get to my email. There’s more than one way to MacGyver a situation, don’t you know.

X marks the (Grease) spot (couldn't find a check mark)....and you can quote me on this - i checked "No" - i would never in a million millenniums recommend vpw's books

"i wish you could read it in the original...it's just so so"

good point, Raf

perhaps a little fine-tuning = using the mindset promoted in PFAL to analyze PFAL would be flawed indeed. = = = = comedy break: why did the pigeon cross the chess board? to crap on the other side.

maybe you are but I'm not lost in the controversy...vpw said "the word" takes the place of the absent Christ...of course, a lot of folks here realize vpw's "the word" was actually his twisted interpretation of scripture. obviously, there's some folks still lost in vpw's "the word".

Maybe in wierwille’s mind something went away (besides wierwille's conscience and reason) but scripture speaks of Christ’s continued presence: For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them. Matthew 18:20 ESV Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age. Matthew 28:20 ESV For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39 ESV I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20 ESV So that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, Ephesians 3:17 ESV To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Colossians 1:27 ESV

Yeah Rocky, that’s a good thing to know (that you don’t need a Kindle to read a Kindle book). Although I do have a Kindle (I love my old Kindle Keyboard paper-white display) I too use the app on my computer, iPad and iPhone – especially if there are diagrams, pictures and maps with the text. I’ve already got B Russell’s book and skimmed through it this morning – very insightful, the part along the lines of institutions disseminating knowledge but not teaching how to intelligently sift through that knowledge – and that education should have an aim of expanding the mind and not narrowing it. Very applicable to all things TWI and that goes for the way corps community too - Russell’s mention of the state being over education can apply to any organization (i.e. cult) that is intent on stacking the deck information-wise and through the subtlety of propaganda “reinforces” a certain opinion.

Jesus may want to look into the TSA pre-check program - Tonto and I got our membership this year - saves time and stress TSA Pre-check

Some folks are about as forthright as a slow boat to China

The lost “art” of alchemy with vpw’s nonsense may work in one’s imagination – but it doesn’t work in the real world Kool-Aid makes the cultist grow fonder vpw’s writings are to plagiarism what evidence is to the crime

Somebody's bin smokin' dat Dilithium Crystal Meth

saaaaay that looks familiar....is that the 44th episode The Tribulation with Treble? ...no wait don't tell me - oh yeah The Trouble with Trebble-a-shuns....no ....mmmmmm...can I call a friend? ...how about I'm All About Outer Space No Tribbles ? ok that's my final answer

Please bear in mind there’s some who believe we’re in the tribulation period right now….well…just on this thread anyway...i guess it's debatable if this thread is The Great Tribulation or just Tribulation period....it makes a helluva entertaining discussion.

looks interesting Rocky - I'll have to check out the 99 cent Kindle version - thanks !

maybe vpw's works should be added to this cannon

Skyrider, I love joking around like this but it makes me think of just how fearful and submissive I was when I was in TWI – that I would never have thought of – let alone follow through on any idea to circumvent the way’s rules and regs.

HQ: how many corps are in attendance ? Branch Coordinator: ten HQ: and only corps are present? Branch Coordinator: yes (then thinks to himself "though not all are standing corps") HQ: and you're NOT recording - is that correct? Branch Coordinator: that is correct (then thinks to himself " Craig hasn't started blabbing yet - so we'll wait to record his bat$hit crazy stuff and technically I'm not in charge of recording tonight, George is.")