T-Bone

Just an FYI: the same could be said of ZERO when in the company of ones and twos.

I have no idea how you misconstrued what I said.....What I said was - THE word was with God and THE word was God - I did NOT say "A word" . Hopefully that was an honest misunderstanding on your part...or misreading of my post , and not a deliberate misdirection....Let me throw in John 1:14 for good measure - THE word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. Also there is a major difference between Jesus' divine nature and what we have: II Peter 1 says we are partakers of the divine nature - "partakers" in Greek as well as English means we take a given portion or share along with others - we participate in something greater than ourselves...we experience undeserved benefits from God at Christ's expense. I don't believe there is any scriptural support to suggest we become God or Gods. Also consider the superlative descriptions of Jesus Christ found in Colossians 2 and Philippians 2 - to just reference one of them ought to be enough for now - in Colossians 2:9 NIV says - for in Christ all the fullness of The Deity lives in bodily form - - that is HIS divine nature - the infinite attributes of God! So contrary to what you said - it looks to me like Jesus Christ's DIVINE nature does indeed make him God.

I fail to see any validity in wierwille's redefining "pros" - from "face to face" to "together with yet distinctly independent of" - wierwille's definition fails on several counts: it de-personalizes the situation of the intimacy between two beings (as "face to face" implies) to two of anything in close proximity to each other - then it could be a dog and a fire hydrant in a "face off" - No intimacy there. wierwille adding "yet distinctly independent of" is superfluous- redundant - it's a different way of saying the same thing "together with" and he further obfuscates any intelligible meaning by Offering an explanation saying the only way Jesus Christ could have existed in the beginning was in the mind of God - in his foreknowledge - that is to suggest that certain thoughts of God are "distinctly independent " of God's own mind.... so way back when - Jesus Christ even though he only existed in the mind of God - this....."thought" still had something like a free agent status and could have joined another team... fortunately for us this "thought" went to bat for Christianity - rah rah - gooooooooo "Jesus Thought "! Or maybe God just has a split personality disorder. seems like wierwille went thru an awful lot of effort to avoid the implications of the real definition "face to face"

Here’s a funny excerpt from Sowers WOWs "…Think for a moment, about losing your ability to breathe. A human being cut off from taking a breath will snap into a frenzied instinct and fight for oxygen. So should our ministry to reconcile God’s children back to him. What destroys a person’s ability to breath? Disease and asphyxiation… …To digress back to the analogy of asphyxiation – while it might seem very evident to a person that they were being choked, keep this in mind: The strongest man could be suffocated at the hands of the most feeble child if the man were so terrified, or so convinced, that his ability to escape the situation was impossible. The Adversary is so far beneath your feet, don’t forget it…" == == == == The 2nd paragraph seems contradictory to the 1st paragraph. I agree with the 1st idea – a person will instinctively fight for air and fight to break free….if…say, an attacker was trying to strangle them – But I don’t follow their rationale of the strongest man being suffocated by the feeblest child because he is terrified of the situation – that there is no way out. So...self-preservation - one of our strongest - if not THE strongest of natural instincts is trumped by fear ?!?! ....Absurd ! What hypothetical nonsense ! Ya know…to psyche out people by fear must run in the wierwille bloodline…what a pathetic bunch of losers.

Great posts, Waysider ! wierwille was an opportunist (among other things ) – and was prone to exploit circumstances for his own benefit – in the context of that time, the cold war was the prevalent political atmosphere (the cold war was approximately from 1947 up to 1991…we were WOWs in bicentennial year (1975) – and got such fat heads from wierwille saying we saved the country from being overthrown ! wasn't wierwille great at blowing "holy" smoke up your a$$ fast forward a few years - remember the movie "Red Dawn" it came out in 1984 and when we were corps Lightbearers in Chicago in ‘85 I think it was someone local who was corps, had Red Dawn on VHS and played it for us to psyche us up for outreach. oddly enough I kinda understand where wierwille may have been coming from – if I put myself in the shoes of a cult leader (yikes - now i have stink-foot !). Sometimes war can stimulate the economy (World War II is often credited with bringing our country out of The Great Depression), and fear (whether grounded or not) can stimulate a buying frenzy for essential goods – and even nowadays you can bet a lot of preppers are always ready for World War III…and when you’re talking fear - I think wierwille wrote the book on fear… …well…probably plagiarized most of it ….all kidding aside, though he may have been incompetent academic-wise – but he most definitely was street-smart in how to manipulate folks by fear! So he used the fear of the cold war escalating to sell folks on the urgency of the times – and to motivate people to up their involvement (translation: “now more than ever, we need more of your time, money and resources”) . If you consult the anals of history (that’s a$$holes with a wierwille-centric point of view) you will find it’s always been the prayers…the commitment…the stand of WOWs, Corps, Fellow Laborers, and name-whatever-program-du-jour you want, that have saved our country from takeovers by communists, wrong-seed bunch, Illuminati…..ya know…things would have worked out a whole lot better if I had just heeded Jesus’ words in Matthew 7 – I could have avoided my life being taken over by a cult leader for 12 years.

On a TWI-related note: I think there could be a book titled "Raising the Dead #2: Why wierwille-Followers Still Refer To That Old Turd"

Recent posts by Bolshevik, InfoAbsorption, and Skyrider got me thinking that wierwille had a bunch of ways to ensnare folks AND to keep them that way. So once the prey is trapped - from then on it's all about control. The term "bait ball" was foreign to me so I had to look it up: a bait ball "occurs when small fish swarm in a tightly packed spherical formation about a common centre. It is a last-ditch defensive measure adopted by small schooling fish when they are threatened by predators. " from Wikipedia . I think maybe wierwille's strategy of painting the outside world as such a treacherous place - was a strategy of control ("if you trip out you could get possessed, the devil will ruin your life, etc" ) that manufactured fear might generate a "bait ball" of sorts - just thinking like a little schooling fish now, I would want to be towards the middle of the bait ball and not out on the periphery where devil spirits are lurking and danger is all about....yup I'm gonna get as close to the middle as possible - right alongside that Great White Shark with one eye Yikes ! No thanks - think I'll just tough it out here in the real world Dory-style - keep on swimming, keep on swimming.

yup - so true for a lot of us.....it's funny because before I got in the way ministry, I had the typical Roman Catholic boy frame of mind - so thinking about who I was going to spend the rest of life with involved thoughts of just one other person besides myself – my future wife…I never intended to marry an entire cult....geeez Louise - having to remember that many more birthdays and anniversaries - it's mind-boggling !

Grace, your post made me laugh – because a long long time ago when I was in TWI, I would occasionally think about the future of my life and could not imagine a life apart from the ministry. Funny how it’s the opposite now – almost makes me shudder to imagine what if I never left…well, for one thing – we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Yeah and sometimes I think about folks that are still in TWI or an offshoot – for them maybe Grease Spot is like that door Rebecca Stott talked about – an opening in the wall erected by the cult… psssssttttt hey there folks still living in way-world, how’s your escape plan coming? Ssshhhhh – don’t say anything about it now! I’m just trying to be friendly. Be smart about it…top priority should be the safety and security of you and your family; you owe the way international nothing ! we’re here to help.

thanks for posting that essay Rocky ! I love that one line i highlighted in bold red....so appropriate for Grease Spot....makes me think of all those things our mind accumulates - things outside what is "approved" by TWI - and when some crisis hits - or we merely reach a tipping point - we leave

I loved "Undertow" and glad it's an e-book now - I am going to get that too...yeah, Tonto loaned our hard copy to a friend who was in the corps....maybe I'm just like Thomas Jefferson in that "I cannot live without books" - - saw that laminated in a bookmarker at Library of Congress gift shop - and had to get it....one of these days I'll master speed-reading - - got a lot of catching up to do

I've never been on staff or had a paid position with the way international - but considering the practical aspect alone - I can relate to why some staffers may have stuck around for so long. I mean - setting aside all the manipulative entanglements that cults create to enslave followers - I think a strong work ethic may account for "career" longevity with some folks. I think a lot of us in the corps had that - you know the "work is its own reward, it builds character " type of thing. That's not a bad thing either....of course, being financially compensated for that is cool too! Combine that with being idealistic (as so many of us were) and grateful to have a paying job (no matter how meager the paycheck) - cuz that's better than no job....and I do tend to think something is better than nothing, anyway. Besides job-hunting is scary to me - and even though folks say there's less financial pressure to find a new job if you already have a job (even if it's a sucky job) - I get nervous anticipating interviews and fret over revising my resume as if it were a corps research paper. And I worry if there will be a well-stocked vending machine in the break room - by well-stocked I mean lots of salty items and snacks with peanut butter in 'em. ...I have a knack for getting real comfortable in my current job.

Understood Raf, moderators, rrobs, and Grease Spotters in general I do apologize for any regression into tit-for-tat (not to be confused with "flash me a boob and I'll show you some skin-inking") and in the future I will try to stay on point. Sincerely T-Bone

What am I doing now? I have been in security for some 38 years. Got into it after I got off the WOW field. Yeah, the first security company I worked for - come to find out the president of the company was a crook - skipped town around Christmas time without paying us! Sort of parallels my other short-lived "career" in a supposedly Christian ministry - in that the president and founder of this pseudo-Christian group was a crook too, if you know what I mean. Really can't complain though...met my wife - in our WOW family. Stuck it out in the security business and it proved to be a very fulfilling career path; sticking with Christianity too - another fulfilling aspect of my journey...peace and love to all Grease Spotters !!!!!

Yup - scared me too but it's still one of my favorite episodes... Oh have you seen "Snakes on a Plane" ? Board of Trustees on Ambassador One Ba-dum-bum I'm here all week, folks!

I'm trying to remember the plot of that old "Twilight Zone" episode with William Shatner on the plane...I remember he was freaking out cuz he saw a gremlin on the wing ....or was it a troll in the cockpit?

What are the five things you must know to receive anything from a troll ? 1. Know what’s available: bull$hit, lies, and deception 2. Know how to receive it: engage a troll in a discussion about “The Word”, PFAL, or wierwille 3. Know what to do with it after you’ve got it: flush it down the toilet 4. Have your needs and wants parallel: I definitely don’t need or want bull$hit, lies, and deception 5. Know a troll's willingness equals their ability: yup – see # 1 & #2 (though both technically are a # 2) – a "good" troll has it all!

Yeah, well…I am a child at heart…just like some other old farts who still like to do childish things like play make-believe, pretend they’re someone else, and then take their bull$hit toys and leave when no one wants to play their stupid game anymore.

yeah....I guess it’s a matter of one getting used to the smell; whenever someone comes to Grease Spot dumping a load of that oh so pungent drivel of wierwille bull$hit – you can bet the stink is rather odious if one hasn't been around it in a long time.

yup - you have a point there - probably because you and I have a different destination point in mind.

What must you do to be saved? I will repeat what you told me on another thread when I asked you some honest questions – “you figure it out” ! However, since freedom to choose does afford you a wide variety of options – you can figure that out from the religion / belief system of your choice.

Exactly what gave you the idea that I was referring to you? I’m not asking that to be coy or act innocent – because I was referring to you. As master of the obvious I would venture to say the reason for your vehement reply was due to the fact that I referred to other folks’ posts with links to your Julian Bible Institute site * packed with wierwille’s stuff AND to posts that YOU have made in which you tried to divert, side-step, ignore, defend, deny, change the subject or counterattack when anyone asks you about your glaringly obvious wierwille-influence. I would also like to say your vicious attack on my character leads me to believe any challenges to your “biblical” façade must really touch a nerve with you. That is sad…I do hope you stick around though – but do drop the pretense, loosen your grip on wierwille-dogmatics, and consider what folks are saying about life outside the mental prison built by wierwille. You say I have no idea who or what you are? Au contraire ! It’s quite obvious to me you are a two-faced liar....but there's hope! i do believe people can change. *note: interesting to see that when I go to Julian Bible Institute site now, I find this: Hello World. I can be found at GSC. link to Julian Bible Institute

Skyrider and Raf, great stuff here ! I think one of the first steps in untangling our minds from cult indoctrination is to step back and try to get an overall picture…it may be baby-steps back…sometimes momentarily stepping just outside the tree line of the forest’s edge and realizing there is an outside in relation to the forest…I also think many of us have had brief glimpses of that (like in Skyrider’s first post) – but then we brush it off as just another one of those old-man-former-nature-sinful-five-senses-unrenewed-mind hiccups…we shrug and think maybe it just means we weren’t properly burped after taking PFAL. Sometimes our journey is interrupted by one of those red flags…something someone said…or by an event…could be anything that momentarily throws us off our supposedly sure footing – and we stumble onto something we’re not supposed to see. For the courageously curious this becomes a tantalizing taste of “forbidden fruit” and marks the beginning of redirection along an epiphany laden road. For me, the whole messy crapstorm after Chris G’s passing of a patriarch was read, is what got me to step back further and further baby-steps-style to try and understand what was happening to the most important stuff in my life (which at the time was God, “The Word”, and all things The Way International). Sometimes “stepping back” was recalling how wierwille was around the corps especially in unguarded moments…or me reflecting on certain interactions I’ve had with various leaders over the years…or me thinking about the elements of control built into programs and ministry positions/assignments. I love that whole rat trap analogy that Raf talked about. I’ve recently had a conversation on another thread with someone who still struggles with the self-induced blindness of leaving the PFAL-colored glasses on. I can so relate to that experience. I loved “the cheese” in the trap. Fortunately this cult’s trap is not a literal rat trap that instantly snuffs out your life when the trap is sprung. The “hammer” of this cult-trap is a velvet covered rigid mindset mounted to a slow-spring mechanism and thus operates on a time delay – depending on how long you linger at the cheese. I think Raf’s insight is a great thing to keep in mind for those who are still into “the cheese”: “trying to mine our TWI experience to figure out what was good in it is like looking at the cheese in a mousetrap as a potential source of calcium. I'm not denying it's cheese. I'm not denying it has calcium. But I'm also not losing sight of who laid it out there and why.”

Wow wee – after a certain someone saying in so many different ways “let’s not bring up wierwille…leave wierwille out of this discussion… I’m just interested in the Word” on this and other threads…and then… Toto pulls back the curtain…again…after someone had reactivated The Great Oz mobile and drove it onto Grease Spot property. (note: for this reimagined episode of The Wizard of Oz, the part of Toto is played by Grease Spotters)

for some reason I thought of that session in PFAL that covers willingness and ability...there's a line in there "I have a jack but I'm not going to help you..." i dunno...i tend to think maybe there's a lack of both