T-Bone

George, don't go by my criteria - maybe I'm OCD surely there's some movies you've enjoyed more than once. How many times have you seen The Green Lantern or some other superhero movie?

Yup to all that ! That makes me wonder if the type of personality / skills required of a leader in charge of maintaining the lockstep in cultdom are quite different from those of leaders who have what it takes to attract new recruits.... ahhhhh yes ....it's all peachy keen during the courtship and honeymoon phase...but lo and behold there comes a time afterward when one wakes up and finds they're married to a royal a$$hole of a cult !

I love relaxing to a good movie. And I usually have to get psyched-up to watch a new movie (even if it’s just new to me ); by that I mean I read lots of reviews about it, get an idea of what it’s about, talk to friends who have seen it…things like that…By no means would I ever try to offer a serious movie review – but I’ve learned to appreciate many movies – and on several levels - by listening to film critics, film historians, producers and directors like the late Roger Ebert, Gene Siskel, and Robert Osborne – as well as Leonard Maltin, Martin Scorsese, Steven Spielberg, and Francis Ford Coppola , and of course, some of the newer breed online and TV. Keeping that in mind – I just wanted to share and hear from others about some favorite movies – even if it’s nothing more than a guilty pleasure you derive from watching a movie so bad it’s good. When I say all-time-favorite movie – for me that means something I will watch at least a couple of times every year. Once I’m familiar with a movie there’s nothing more relaxing than watching it again to savor the acting, directing, cinematography, technical details, or even just the sheer goofiness or rottenness of it all . One of my favorite genres is thrillers – and so Michael Clayton: George Clooney plays a “fixer” hired by a law firm to help out after one of their lawyers had a meltdown defending a big company from a multibillion dollar class action suit. In my opinion Clooney does great in roles that call upon some inner turmoil – like the troubled fixer in Michael Clayton, or the stoic assassin in The American. Tilda Swinton plays the general counsel for the company. I’ve read some comment years ago about Swinton’s acting quality or screen presence – and it was something along the lines of her not seeming to be altogether from this planet and yet at times can appear down right earthy – that she can be ethereal and gritty. One of the things that make a good thriller is a good villain – and Swinton does a great job. If Michael Clayton was a superhero movie – she is a believable supervillain – super at being dastardly yet still possessing human weaknesses. Michael Clayton on IMDB …so got any all-time-favorite movies you want to share?

I'll probably go along the lines of what a lot of folks have already said, like taking it slow and allowing them to make their own decision. And another thing - taking a cue from Skyrider - I'd take into account the innie's experience AND their current level of involvement.... but something just as critical - perhaps even a prerequisite, is that THEY would be the one to initiate the dialogue - whether it would be an old way-friend contacting me or a new member on Grease Spot - I think it is appropriate for THEM to make the first move in expressing some interest in why l left or why there is Grease Spot. If they blew me off or blew off Grease Spot after what I had to say - I promise I'd keep it short and (bitter)-sweet ...then oh well, I'd wish them the best on their journey. However - if they stick around and give any indication that there is some doubt gnawing at that back of their mind - I would want to know more about their experience and level of involvement with TWI. I'd give a good listen and find something of all that I could relate to and then maybe share something of my own experience - that hopefully would resonate with them. The last thing I would ever want to do is talk them out of or into anything! I think if the person is really wanting to figure out where TWI is at ....or wierwille, way doctrine & practice....or whatever it is that's been sitting on the back burner in their craw - perhaps someone honestly speaking the truth on a particular matter may actually crank up the heat on that. I think they have to come to some type of realization THEMSELVES - that they figure it out - or else they will torture themselves with fear they've been entertaining devil spirits , tricked by the devil, playing with Fire, thinking worldly, etc....yes this is perhaps the loneliest part - the most scariest part of the whole ordeal - THEY have to decide for themselves.

Skyrider , Having followed online the solar eclipse yesterday I was struck by your topic....in my opinion the reverence for wierwille DOES eclipse the gospel of Jesus Christ.. .recalling the mindset I had for 12 years - I think it was whatever spiritual hunger I had to know Jesus Christ (I've mentioned before of my calling out for him during a bad acid trip - and later signing up for the class because I assumed it was a smart follow - an answered prayer if you will) ...that attracted me to wierwille/PFAL - but now I tend to think of any mention of Jesus Christ and all things Christian in PFAL were just window dressing- to get you in the PFAL store. But whatever sliver of my savior's light I was able to glimpse behind the umbra of wierwille's ego seemed to shrink year after year...how sad.... Well, to end my post on a good note - I'm still a Christian and intent on avoiding any other idolatrous eclipses.

I'm thinking maybe our Twig was a cross between Jehovah's Witness on door-to-door outreach and Amway on multilevel marketing of PFAL... Although personally I've never been crazy about either of those operations....I lean toward what's practical....I would have loved teaching folks how to preserve their PFAL books by putting them in Tupperware...first session "how to burp your PFAL Tupperware".... think that's something- just wait until session 6 - "Battle of the Ziplock "....not to be confused with the session that had to be removed from the class "Seal-A-Meal" also know as "The Unforgivable Sin" - at least around Tupperware fans anyway.

Arriving at Rome City campus I remember seeing a poster on the wall "The world out The Word in " The unspoken purpose is the real aim of corps training - indoctrination! Of course, this is not what I expected when I went in... everything that had brought me to the point of crossing the campus threshold was geared to gaining my absolute trust of TWI....critical thinking - everything you knew about thinking, analyzing, decision making - - would gradually slough off - - this would allow them more or less a free rein of my blind obedience... .as I said before - this is not what I expected...and to be honest, it was not what I thought my way corps training was about ...until I came to Grease Spot years ago and started comparing notes. thank God I am free of that deluded and manipulative crazy-town !

great post Krys ! some good points Yes - great post WordWolf - I agree - corps training was really about serving TWI...and it seemed like there was a cookie-cutter mentality behind the program, in that no matter what your interests were, what skills and natural abilities you may have had - we all got thrown into a retooling / hopper "program" - i.e. Indoctrination ; the "best" trainees that came out of that were just a bunch of wierwille sycophants willing and able to do anything for TWI.

the complete version is below

here's an attempt to extrapolate the trend in stupidity

Great posts Rocky & Waysider ! Sometimes wierwille apologetics make me think of an Old Testament passage: 20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight! Isaiah 5: 20, 21 ESV What an insult - to fault the students for the “teacher’s” ineptness (not even considering his gross moral depravity here) . How ridiculous is that?! wierwille was supposedly a "gifted teacher" – president and founder of a biblical research and teaching ministry – but one of the few things he was really adept at was crippling the intellect of devoted followers.

FYI - the wooden spoon brigade (parents at Rome City) were the first TWI splinter group - ouch !

In vpw’s teaching on John 1 “who is the word?” vpw asserted there was only one way to explain how Christ could have “existed” in the beginning – by taking into account God’s foreknowledge. However, as noted above such a concept is not implied in the text of John’s first chapter. vpw further confuses things in that same study by referencing Ephesians 1: 4 & 5 – where it says God chose us in him before the foundation of the world and he says something along the lines of “don’t tell me you were floating around somewhere back then” in other words, like Christ, we only existed in God’s foreknowledge way back when…suggesting this is like John 1:1 is preposterous…Ephesians 1:4 & 5 say more about God’s sovereignty than anything else. But that’s another thorny subject – the conundrum of God’s sovereignty and man’s freedom of will. JAL’s cheesy explanation of foreknowledge – reveals he has the same inept reductionist tendencies as vpw…I dunno...maybe it’s my Roman Catholic upbringing – but I’m all for acknowledging the ineffable greatness of God…the mysteriousness of God…and his inexplicable ways (such as God’s sovereignty vs man’s freewill, I mentioned earlier) …if God is truly an infinite, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being our theology can only speculate or try to imagine what that’s all like…I’m not crazy about trying to squeeze John 1 down into a nice and neat easily understood Bible study that relies on goofy definitions and silly explanations.

thanks Rocky ! great Seinfeld clip for this discussion !

reminds me of that old classic A Tale of Two Squares... It was the end times It was the worst of the behinds

When the roll is called up yonder I'll be there...for my two square allotment

Or maybe his last words were "Rosie's Bu++ "

Yeah - - maybe so....youth and naïveté go together like peanut butter and jelly.

Thanks for that angelfire link. After reading the article a couple of times I tend to think the author goes through great pains to disprove the Trinity – however I’m not crazy about his effort to confuse “in the beginning” in John 1:1 with “from the beginning” in I John 1:1 – as stated in one sentence from the angelfire article: “John's letter tells us quite clearly what he means by his language in the first verse of his letter and his Gospel.” I disagree - it seems obvious to me that there are two distinct and different time references between the gospel of John 1 and the letters of John. “In the beginning” of John 1 has traditionally been understood as paralleling Genesis 1 – the beginning of the time -space-material universe. Besides echoing the Genesis phrasing – there are enough other far-reaching temporal allusions in this first chapter of John’s gospel to suggest more is meant than just the beginning of when the gospel was preached. In the grand scheme of things perhaps we should take note of the gospel intertwining creation and salvation. And in like manner borrowing “the Word” from the Old Testament as well as Greek philosophy John has intertwined a message that reaches out to both Jew and Greek. Whereas I John 1:1 as well as other verses in John’s letters that the angelfire link correctly points out deal with “the beginning of the proclaimed Good News”. I don’t have a problem with that. Perhaps from John’s letters we may gather the gospel message is solid…secure…unchanging…stable…not evolving or morphing to follow trends or some fad or to give it market appeal. Of course this is just all my opinion – I could be wrong.

Yeah Grace, what I think was lacking was street-smart - you know, necessary skills for survival in the real world - like the ability to spot a scam and to recognize a bunch of control-freaks, etc.

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I went into the corps program during the latter part of my TWI involvement (took the class in the winter of ’74…went into the Family Corps in the fall of ’84)…your posts got me thinking over that time before I went into the corps…I know this is going to sound odd – but I kinda see that time as obedience training (as in obedience training for dogs) in that it served as a prerequisite for way corps indoctrination - - - - in other words, it was conditioning for a more efficient uptake of cultic bu11$hit. Given the long time span before I went in the corps – is that much more time to develop a sublime veneration of vpw – which probably made me a real pushover for those cultic bastards.

some very interesting stuff there Thor....thanks for sharing all that - especially that link - - a one time astronomical event ! lots of stuff to think about.

Wait, wait don't tell me...he's listening to The Squirrel Nut Zippers.

Nope nope nope! Misapplication...for attacking windmills contact The Don Quixote Squirrel.