T-Bone

great point WordWolf I thought the same things - - but to tell you the truth I got tired of playing some run-around game every time I asked for specifics like documentation (chapter and verse) or links to other sites rrobs referred to....I was feeling more like a prosecuting attorney trying to get testimony out of someone rather than having a discussion with an exchange of ideas...my last post to rrobs was more of a simple courtesy of honoring what he said "I believe what I posted.You seem not to. Let's just leave it at that." ....so I left it at that.... by the way - in reference to my parting words "love & peace , T-Bone" that I said to rrobs - I meant that sincerely......and it's probably due to the fact that WordWolf's thread on tone and decorum at Grease Spot still reverberates in my mind and I'm working on being more mellow and courteous in my approach to certain discussions - I know - I've got a long ways to go....but I'm glad someone else pointed out this stuff ....I was beginning to feel like a broken record. anyway....it's too bad we couldn't get beyond all that....I could have really got into a discussion that addresses the Las Vegas mass shooting and the aftermath - in terms of what should be done -- -- I mean after all, the title of this thread is stop the shootings - that's a call to action - i wasn't expecting a rah rah session over pious platitudes - - i thought we'd get into it thoughtfully - not just legislature-wise, but socially, how our country handles mental health issues, how violence is so prevalent in movies and video games, explore the big picture philosophically, the problem of evil in the world and a gazillion other tangents - - - - heck you hear so much of that in the news and social media since the mass shooting...and after every mass shooting as a matter of fact....yeah talk is cheap but it's a step in the right direction - it's a start - it gets people thinking about what they can and should do....I thought that would be the way this thread would go - and develop into a thoughtful conversation....I know Twinky tried to get us going in a meaningful direction by her posts early on but I guess her great points got lost in the noise and distraction of "cross-examination" attempts - - oops that was me!.....sorry for my whining and disappointment - - I really get frustrated when folks either don't want to or can't extrapolate on the practical impact of a doctrine or a belief system.

I agree - these corps letters from wierwille are self-incriminating ! It’s a partial peek inside his criminal mind ! You get to see the means and opportunity he had at his disposal - - the only thing hidden is his motive....but I guaren-damn-tee ya it was not love ....any wierwille sycophant who disagrees just compare the way he handled anything with the way love is defined in I Corinthians 13 !!!!!!! I rest my case.

I think wierwille planned on exploiting any perceived weaknesses he saw in those life stories..... who knows - maybe he wasn’t just keeping an eye out () for women he could prey upon - maybe he could score some roofies from an old drug dealer (if he still had his connections - invite them to a public ex while they’re at it). The guy who robbed a liquor store might possibly have the potential for double duty - put him in charge of finances and keeping up the inventory on Drambui. ....seriously though - there’s something about submitting a tell-all story to wierwille that reminds me of going to confession in the Roman Catholic Church.....as a Christian I think that’s something reserved for THE high priest alone - Jesus Christ....uhm... oh yeah .....I forgot.... wierwille takes the place of the absent Christ. you know - it’s fascinating to consider how vpw viewed the corps - in that group identity thing! That’s a big deal to grasp - and I believe that’s how he looked at folks .as a cult-leader that’s very efficient- - why waste time and energy getting to really know folks one-on-one and help in their personal development - when you can just pigeon hole them....shove them into a few standard cookie-cutter templates so they can shape up for the various needs of the cult.

Great posts Skyrider and Twinky ! Thanks to all for the running commentary on these corps letters ! for some reason a pressure cooker came to mind when I was reading this thread this morning - looking back on my time in residence - it was a pressure cooker - gets the indoctrination job done faster and uses less energy.

He was a good shear-cropper though — a portion of what he swindled out of folks went right back into pulling the wool over their eyes.

The best way to start a cult is actually to let someone else do it. Then when it all goes south operation-wise (see footnote #1), you can rise up and lead a revival and restoration to draw others to your new cult - so you don’t need to reinvent proven cult-tactics...just repackage them as “new and improved “. Once you’re officially the new offshoot Cult-leader remain ever vigilant and have a clear vision and goal where you want to be in five years. (See footnote 2). Footnote #1: some cults may or may not start out in the wrong direction - that is contingent upon the degree of ineffable greatness that wells up from the dark recesses of the megalomaniac’s heart of hearts - which is now the heart of the cult - and becomes infected...make that infested - in the senses realm by many despicable acts. Footnote #2: once you’ve started a cult by imitating the schmuck that inspired you - common sense will tell you there’s bound to be some dumb fvck like yourself, who’s eyeballing your illustrious position of power and glory. So plan ahead, if it takes four or five years to get a masters degree in secular shystership - get started immediately while you’re on the cult’s payroll.

Ok rrobs, thanks for your timely response Love & peace T-Bone

well...since you ask - before I formulate an explanation or just to see if what you say is true - I would need to see your posts on those sites as well as the response by others – - so, please be so kind as to provide links to your posts on the two Christian forums also I’m curious to see if you have any credibility or validity issues on these two Christian forums as well – and whether you actually did post the same paper there as you did here… …if you don’t want to provide those links that’s alright…no big deal…I’ll just assume those instances are non-existent like the chapters and verses to support your assertions I identified…on the flip side – maybe I’ve misunderstood you here and maybe a “change of venue” might help me to give you a fair shake.. ..sooooooooo....got links? but you are asking the reader to do just that in a round about way - you are asking folks to disprove your statements yet you do not offer any proof of their validity - other than you saying so...you are expecting folks to assume you've already made a VALID point and then you expect folks to make a counterpoint to a non-existent point. ...."prove all things" and "be ready to give an answer to everyone that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you" come to mind - and it's along those lines that I think the onus is back on you to provide reasons for what you said - and to stick with the "rules" you yourself set up...you claim all that you said is in perfect alignment with the word - ok - so show me specifically by chapter and verse - anybody can claim a particular doctrine is in perfect alignment and harmony with the word and even show verses to back it up....yeah, I have a small collection of systematic theologies that do just that - so step up to the plate and prove your case... sorry to be so persistent on this but I'm curious if you were just spouting pat answers or if you have really taken the time, thought process and due diligence to declare such bold and authoritative sounding statements...that makes me think of a pivotal scene in Working Girl. Sigourney Weaver's character stole an idea from her assistant played by Melanie Griffith - and the stolen idea impresses the heck out of a CEO - enough so for a merger deal. The CEO asks Sigourney what was the inspiration for her idea but she fumbled around trying to explain a particular thought process she never had in the first place. Whereas Melanie could because it was her idea - and the CEO could tell...things worked out well for Melanie...not so much for Sigourney.... If you want to compare reading material...personally, I prefer reading authors who accurately and honestly document their references and provide logical arguments for a subject that I'm interested in. I don't need to hound them for more info if they've intelligently and honestly laid out their case - - how they clearly show from specific data how they arrived at a given idea...and really, a lot of my favorite authors on a variety of subjects tend toward overkill when it comes to documentation, references, etc...needless to say I've got lots to look into from their footnotes, references, further reading, bibliography, etc. but the quickest solution by far would be for you to prove your point by scripture references - since you started the thread...I’m sorry but I’m not a fan of circular reasoning. Very odd…as I said above - usually the onus is on the person making the claim, to provide evidence, documentation, or some fact to support their assertion. - you do realize you made a lot of forceful and confident statements in your first post - I just picked out a few for brevity's sake ; surely you must have SOMETHING to back up your statements – you’ve been acting so adamant and insistent that you do. another thing - can you please define GSC speak ?

Please provide links to your posts on two Christian forums...so we’ll see your validity / biblical basis on other sites.

Duly noted...so what you’re saying (what you’re admitting to) is that you cannot cite chapter and verse! In other words - you cannot back up...you cannot prove your assertions ( That i referred to in my post) have any biblical basis ! The fact that you cannot leaves me with the conclusion that you are unable to do so. Perhaps you think it’s clever to dodge the questions - as if to indicate to others you intentionally will not cite chapter and verse - but I’m left to assume you’re trying to save face for repackaging old wierwillisms - and now want to avoid any challenges to your unsubstantiated nonsense. By all indications you’ve demonstrated thus far on this thread - you lack both the ability AND willingness to carry on a meaningful and intelligent discussion on a thread that YOU started - and of all things by using the recent horrific tragedy of the Las Vegas mass shooting as a springboard for your drivel. That’s just sick and twisted in my book. Of course, that’s just my opinion. Oh and please respond to my other post where I asked you to provide links to the posts you made on two Christian forums - I want to read exactly what you said and how others responded to it...just want to see how far I’m off base from your “trophy worthy” musings.

Please provide links to the two Christian forums you’re referring to - and more specifically, please include links directly to what you posted so I can read it in context of what and how you said it along with the responses from others on those forums.

So…using your own criteria of chapter and verse – let us proceed… ...I’ll just limit it to a few select points since it appears your first post does exhibit such a flagrant disregard for documentation (citing chapter and verse) – which in turn leaves my line of inquiry rather repetitive… == == == == rrobs: The quality of life of a society is ultimately determined by the thoughts that each individual in that society holds in their mind. T-Bone: Please provide chapter and verse for your assertion. == == == rrobs: Those thoughts in turn are dependant on the things each individual is told by sources outside of ourselves. T-Bone: Please provide chapter and verse for your assertion. == == == rrobs: That is basic to life. T-Bone: Please provide chapter and verse for your assertion. == == == == rrobs: The influence on our thoughts, and therefore our quality of life, by NBC, CBS, CNN, Fox, Google News, et.al. is nothing short of grossly underestimated. In fact, it would be fair to say it’s given no estimation whatsoever. But that doesn’t change the fact that 24/7 our minds are assaulted with words and images that definitely tend towards the things that make us full of anxiety, doubt, fear, and a general feeling of helplessness. That makes for a society with a low quality of life. T-Bone: Please provide chapter and verse for your assertions (this is referencing the entire above paragraph). == == == == rrobs: To reverse this each individual must change the diet upon which their mind feeds. Man’s philosophy, moral concepts, and their false religions are a poor diet indeed. All that unhealthy food needs to be replaced by healthy food. T-Bone: Please provide chapter and verse for your assertions. == == == = rrobs: It is his divine power and his alone that gives us all things that pertain to life and godliness. We can realize that power only by having a knowledge of God. It sure won’t come via the TV, computer screen, or radio. Only God tells us how life should be. If you really want to do something positive to change the course of our world, study the Bible and start believing the things it says instead of believing all you hear on CBS. With a scripture centered change of mind, the quality of your individual life will take a turn for the better. The more individuals that do that, the better life becomes for society as a whole. T-Bone: Please provide chapter and verse for your assertions.

maybe there’s frequent liar miles rewards - - I think he got a lot of mileage out of many of his lies.

I agree, Waysider ! while we're talking about the doctrinal forum ...sometimes I wonder if it would be helpful to have certain sub-forum headings in the doctrinal forum that actually streamline the discussion – like: doctrines that ignore reality doctrines that are hard-hearted and calloused (yowser bowser - a redundancy daily double ) doctrines that cater to self-righteousness and pontification doctrines my shyster cult-leader taught me and so forth…I figure that way the main issue is indicated up front in the sub-forum heading and no one has to hem and haw over what is the whole point of the matter.....if anything it might make for really short discussions.

Testimonials: I’m glad I came back. I really feel like I’m part of a big household now and never want to leave again. It's like being under house arrest, only better ! Lordy Pete (Snowball Pete’s 2nd cousin - twice removed - aka 2 time mark-and-avoid recipient, but is now doing penance on grounds crew at Headquarters)

Don’t Worry, I love your phrasing in this post! After a recent vacation of Tonto and I tooling around Washington State listening to alternative rock station - I’m thinking some grunge band worth their weight in decibels could whip up a good tune about Zombie Jesus Nazis.

Un Twist It, I really like the name you chose ! Welcome to Grease Spot. I hope you can figure out some things from your time online here.

Welcome to Grease Spot, Ziarnko ! I hope you stick around awhile and participate in the discussions…here and on other threads…you may find there’s quite a variety of perspectives on any given subject, a much more intellectually stimulating ambiance… without all those subliminal restrictions pervasive in certain groups like The Way International. As far as judging by results or benefits gained - going on my own experience and comparison of the local church I grew up in (Roman Catholic Church vs The Way International) I would have to say The Way International loses miserably. Because they promised so much more than my local church !!!!!! The Way International / wierwille / PFAL class / books claimed their knowledge and understanding of the Bible would enable me to: unleash the power of God in my life, separate truth from error, develop more harmony in the home, increase prosperity, pray effectually, overcome fear and worry…I could go on for days but the truth of the matter is that for all their enticing claims…and after 12 years of my heavy involvement, the results were negligible. You also bring up part of something I remember from the PFAL class - - wierwille’s criteria for determining validity…seeing if something is genuine or counterfeit…it went something along the lines of asking what is the profit? and who gets the glory?. As Waysider and Rocky mentioned…and a typical answer you’ll find on many other threads – it was wierwille and wierwille alone who had so much to gain monetarily in the sale of plagiarized material in classes and books as well as the praise and adulation for supposedly being God’s “mouthpiece” for our day and time and hour. You can fault The Roman Catholic Church for a lot of things – but something this little old parishioner still remembers learning as a kid are the simple moral standards of the Bible – like lying and stealing being a sin. In my opinion wierwille’s plagiarism is on the order of grand larceny to the nth degree (that’s lying and stealing for profit that is way over the minimum grand larceny amount). Growing up I’ve always believed you call a spade a spade – if you see someone doing something wrong you call them on it - you don’t sugarcoat it. I never was a big fan of The Way International’s misuse of whoever is without sin cast the first stone – that thinking reminds me of the I’m rubber you’re glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you defense mechanism of little kids in the playground. stick around Grease Spot awhile you may begin to see through The Way International’s hypocrisy and use of the double standard. sorry for the long welcome...have a cup of Joe on me

TWI announces a new Amnesty Program: If you left us because of any differences in doctrine or practice- now is the time to come back home! As a research ministry we're always finding new ways to encourage group think.

forgot to include this in my post - this was the best !!!! Thanks Waysider !!! I tell ya...once I left TWI - that sure was a load off my mind !

(Plagiaristic apologies to the campaign to bring back the brown / gold jerseys of the San Diego Padres) TWI campaign of nostalgia for the good old daze: Bring Back the Brown

The problem with thinking outside the box is having to get rid of the box on re-cycle day. We can provide you with a box you’ll never have to get rid of. You'll never have to think outside the box ever again !

true dat ! and Grace you get some credit for inspiring a slogan revision: We steal from others and pass the savings on to you.

Krys and Thomas – you got me thinking of when wierwille asks in the PFAL class “what has the gospel cost you?” He asks that in light of all the suffering Paul went through for the furtherance of the gospel… …and I guess one assumption students could make was that we should be so thankful that it all (further assuming wierwille’s “message” actually had anything to do with the real gospel message of Jesus Christ) was now being handed to us on a silver platter (in the PFAL class). Considering the fact that wierwille was a preeminent plagiarist with a flagrant disregard for giving credit where credit was due – I could also ask him (if that turd was still alive) “what has the gospel cost YOU?!?!”… and the answer is nothing !!!! because he stole it from others …If you’re talking in terms of loss of royalties, credit, readership, etc. - - wierwille’s thievery cost Bullinger, BG Leonard, Stiles and others a bunch ! Besides the fact that wierwille's ineptness obfuscated any of the useful info he stole from others. Krys and Thomas, thank you both for inspiring another slogan: We borrow from others and pass the savings on to you.

Grace, you've inspired another slogan: Bringing phoney to the next generation