T-Bone

Grace you ask “Why?”… I really don’t know why ….or whatever motivated that turd…but I doubt if it was good. …but thinking about the things he said while his eye was roving (not talking about the “good” eye which was roving ALL the time ) – so…. to be clear – while his glass eye was being passed around - he would go on about how the bright lights used during the filming of PFAL caused him to lose that eye – AND – prattle about how when a Levitical priest was disfigured he was not allowed to serve – or some bull$hit along those lines (don’t remember his exact Old Testament priestly reference....I think Don’t Worry and Skyrider have some very incisive commentary on wierwille’s priestly sob story and the bright lights while filming PFAL…it’s somewhere on another thread or two. …I think “the why” may have been his hope to always garner all the sympathy and adulation he could. He was a consummate con-man - always hard at work to maintain the delusion of grandeur.

Rocky, you don’t know the half of it…I actually did hold his prosthetic eye in my hand when he passed it around the Chapel in Rome City…don’t know if you could say I was a star pupil – but his definitely was…some folks may not have seen things eye to eye with wierwille…but there for a brief moment in time I sure did.

Testimonials: Our phones were ringing off the hook after the storm - everyone asking when is the power going to be restored. A great trick I learned from the class is to answer a question with a question. So I would say to them "how would you like to increase the power of God in your life?" Occasionally they would call right back and ask who is the religious nut job answering the phones. Wow - a double setup - how cool is that ! I'd say right back " I know you are but what am I?" Snowball Pete (Power Company emergency phone line operator)

I've got a fever for bull$hit...and the prescription is more phony credentials!

I assume you're referring to the "teacher" of PFAL - wierwille ....if you're not I do apologize for a joke in bad taste... But if it was a reference to wierwille - perhaps it shows the determination of a con-man looking for the next sucker - as in "I'll keep an eye out for ya."

Testimonials: "Their class costs an arm and a leg but it's worth it!" John Jumpup (a 2 time amputee)

Thor, thanks for all the work you've put into your posts...lots to look into and lots to think about...thanks again !

I think in TWI's case we should call it Diarrhea-tics

I'm wondering if TWI's thinking goes along the lines of situational ethics Philosophy.org on situational ethics Wikipedia on situational ethics

Hi Nicoblu72 and welcome to Grease Spot ! Hope you find some reminiscing buddies. have a cup of Irish Coffee on me

We have the answers to your toughest questions about the Bible. Guaranteed! Even if we have to make up the answers.

I liked the movie The Devil's Advocate , and I can see similarities in how the way international exploits followers by finesse or force - temptation or coercion...and I think in the long run it's the various temptations that is the stronger tether. I think you have an excellent point - some may stick it out for the duration - for the sense of achievement, approval from leadership, advancement, etc.... I can see that was what drove me many times during my stint...this kind of tether is so sneaky - invisible - because it's reinforced from within us....and it's one of the toughest pills to swallow when you're on the fence of whether or not to leave TWI..."do I cut my losses and move on? What about all I've invested all those years? What about all that I achieved?" Maybe my answer to those questions was a little like Paul's thought process in Philippians 3:8 - I decided to count it all dung compared to the freedom I would have to live my life the way I want to.

I was watching NBC this morning and Lester, Al, and Dylan were going over how bad the storm surge aspect is...I never knew that - and then they showed a short clip of one guy standing by sea wall videoing with phone and a big surge/wave of water just violently shoved him backwards over some heavy duty guard rail! Hang in there Raf, hope you're stocked up on essentials and hope the power returns soon.

Disciplines the mind by a wooden spoon; the "spoonings" will cease when your believing improves.

I think those guys could have been the headliner at a Snooze Fest....here's their slogan: The Victors - when all other sleep aids fail.

We're a different kind of biblical research ministry... we already know what the Bible should say.

( And watch out if they start talking about 3 part harmony - I think it means they're into a threesome )

Enables you to separate truth from your life; PFAL-colored glasses will be provided.

Skyrider, I think what you've said may apply to a lot of seasoned corps - who had reached a tipping point over their years of the laborious daily grind of the way international's operations...and had probably identified a number of issues long before Chris G's PooP hit the fan.

Having said that awhile back…and thinking of the upcoming astronomical event of September 23rd, I’m not going to make any predictions here – just stating the obvious – things have been getting dicey for a while now...if there’s anything to biblical prophecies – everything going on politically, economically, socially, etc. seems to be a protracted setup that one way or another will change the world as we know it - consider the following links: Equifax data breach employees have embedded chips microchips implanted in humans microchip implant by Wikipedia bringing middle east tensions to a boiling point what would war look like with North Korea is America headed toward a new civil war social unrest and political tension in America the middle east powder keg climate change the big thaw technology's bad effect on the environment brief history of technology's impact on environment I believe Jesus Christ will return – and that he will change how things get done in ways that we can’t even imagine – no matter how many times we’ve studied prophecy… How well do you feel you’re prepared? I’m not asking along the lines of a come-to-Jesus meeting…I’m just thinking out loud – how prepared am I if things don’t play out exactly like I thought they would. Will Christ return pre, mid, or post tribulation period? Is the interpretation of the book of Revelation to be based on Preterism, Futurism, Historicism, or Idealism…or any combination therewith…and how will the millennial period unfold? Are you absolutely sure you know the answer? I’m not meaning to be a downer – my post is cautionary…that’s all… just saying sometimes I don’t even place any faith in certain of my pet doctrines. In times like that I lean to something…or rather someone who far outranks me…someone who has been around for a long time…and is more real than my favorite bible studies…that someone is Jesus Christ: “All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. 2 They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. 3 They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. 4 I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, 5 but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you…7 33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” …John 16: 1-7, 33 NIV == == == == 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. 45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns…Matthew 24: 36-46 NIV Love and peace T-Bone

an excellent point WordWolf and I will testify to that from my own experience...having left in '86 in the aftermath of PoP - it was a GRADUAL distancing of myself from TWI. At first resigning from my corps assignment post of area coordinator - but still visiting all the Twigs in my area...and as the old intellectual gears continued to engage full throttle - I would feel somewhat awkward if I dared to share any of the new found stuff from my studies - instead I would start slacking off going to these Twigs... I'm not really of the leader or management type...didn't want to start my own thing...didn't want to lead a rebellion against the "evil empire" or anything - and at that point I didn't even see TWI as the evil empire - i was just trying to sort out what the hell happened...how did we get to that point...how not to make the same mistakes again ...but for the moment - it was a matter of survival - I was just trying to figure out where I was since I came to the surface from a sunken ship. It was all new to me - adapting to a new intellectual environment - and one of my own choosing.

Hi Bapsy, just to be clear I never implied that John 1 supports the Trinity. But I do believe it speaks of the divinity of Christ – as does your reference/link to Philippians 2:6. And regarding your link/reference to Ephesians 4:6 – I don’t have a problem with that either. I’ve come across this being addressed in several systematic theologies – that point to God the Father being the originator…the source…and Jesus Christ as the only authorized agent to act on behalf of the Father. Steve Lortz has a great doctrinal thread on the economy of the Trinity – which makes a lot of sense to me…if you think about it – economy is the careful management of wealth and resources in terms of production and the consumption of goods and services – that dictionary definition is sort of business like…a little cold and clinical for my taste but in fact maybe that’s just a technical description of how the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit conduct the business of redemption…I dunno…but do check out his thread Doctrine of the Trinity …you may find it enlightening… I’ve often stated on Grease Spot I am a Trinitarian – but I use the term loosely – since there’s quite a variety of strains – and as I’ve said before on other doctrinal threads – there are many biblical subjects that defy our penchant to categorize and interpret the biblical data into neat, simple, and clear formulas for doctrine. But that’s just my standard disclaimer when it comes to matters of faith, doctrine, etc. - I could be wrong. I’m not a theologian – just an innocent bystander. Your link/reference to Romans 10: 9 & 10 reminds me of a great book by F.F. Bruce Jesus: Lord & Savior ...the book in simple terms shows how the early Christians began to perceive Jesus Christ...It was one of the first books I read after leaving the way international, that got me to think outside the box of the way's doctrine....anyway, just a thought. love & peace T-Bone

Wow Twinky – what a story – I appreciate you sharing that…it’s just crazy how he went off on the deep end to mark and avoid you over something like that…having met you at the Texas BBQ a few years ago and knowing what a sweet person you are – I’m just blown away by him throwing a massive fit over you not recognizing his ordination of someone! I mean...what the he11 !?!?! How loving and forgiving you were to attend his funeral a couple of years later….you’re still a sweet person Love and peace T-Bone

Thanks for sharing that, Bolshevik! For some reason this one line really stood out to me: “maintains a strict hierarchy separating unsuspecting supporters and recruits from the inner workings” I was going to bold or highlight the operative word in that phrase…but couldn’t decide which one it would be – every word is necessary to explain the truth on how abusive and controlling cults like the way international operate…amazing....there’s a purpose for every word he says, where he says it, why he says it….oh, never mind – just slipped into a PFAL induced coma for a second there. But seriously – overall some great observations and so true…thanks again for that video.

Which may answer wierwille's question "why division in the church?" - - church goers have to comply with posted maximum occupancy signs; "oh hi, bless you, we're maxed out here - why don't you try Guido's Twig Apartment C-6 on the third floor. Godspeed"