T-Bone

For Sale: Cult leader with dwindling fan base looking to sell one overworked motor-coach; uniquely designed interior with extra storage space for an exceedingly abundant supply of liquor, Roofies, and MREs (note: these items are sold separately), and includes classic entertainment system (Beta-max Video Tape Player); equipped with luxurious Sofa Fold-Out Bed (hole in mattress has been repaired); sports a vintage rear bumper sticker “If this van’s a-rockin’ don’t come a-knockin’ ”; custom exterior lettering in need of repair, currently reads “Go _ _less _ _ _ Abundantly”; will consider the "best" offer or trade for Volkswagen minibus.

Sorry - a little late for that...since that was part of my "severance package" I had the apple and brawn food bar freeze dried and rolled over to my ROTH 401K Post-Apocalypse Account. now if you are still interested in trading - I might still have some Shepard's Pie or Pizza with chicken gizzards on it - hermetically sealed in space-age ziplock baggies of course - in my way corps memorabilia footlocker....I'll have to check - let me get back with you on that.

Wanted: cult leader - no experience necessary - but lack of scruples a plus; proficient in The Word wierwille 1.0; must be willing to travel and mooch off fan base; must excel at perpetuating existing schemes and generating new ones and be committed to maintaining the highest security standards for lockboxes and coverups; perks include raping and pillaging loyal followers (with gender of your choice); salary commensurate with cutthroat experience.

The same as what qualifies anyone to oversee a cult - if they are next in line of a bunch of cutthroats.

You have shared this point many times….and it’s been illustrated in many folks’ stories here on Grease Spot too. But lately I’ve been so fascinated by it. For a long time after I left TWI I think I still had some nebulous notion that wierwille was able to wield such an enormous amount of power over others; but taking into account the onward march of time and reality…and people growing up, it demystifies the demise of TWI – for me anyway…it's like some weird game of adult cult leader versus impressionable youths – however the game-changer for those who wise up is time and reality – that eventually levels the playing field. Skyrider, I love this: “…all toward the view of upward mobility was being discussed on the home front. Responsible people are not stupid. They plan for the road ahead.” Very simple and so true! I think wierwille had a two prong approach as a cult leader – it was either finesse or force. If his charisma…his disarming charm couldn’t carry the day then he’d be the autocrat and rain down hell, fire and brimstone on your life. I was watching America’s Funniest Videos tonight and saw a clip of a little kid literally afraid of his own shadow. As the setting sun made his shadow longer it really freaked out this little guy while he was walking along. Hilarious! Reminds me of a mindset I had in the later years of my TWI involvement. Timid and fearful of the real world outside…worrying that I was never spiritual enough to handle things right, worrying about how we would make ends meet, worrying that I would disappoint leadership above me, worrying that I would get chewed out by Craig for something I did or didn’t do. But a funny thing happened…I started making some adult decisions – like resigning from my assignment as an area coordinator and letting Craig know I needed some answers to things regarding the passing of the patriarch and the crapstorm that followed before I would resume any ministry responsibilities. This little guy no longer fears his own shadow -or any shady cult leader for that matter.... Never got any answers from him – and in time I focused more on my own family, what we needed, what i needed to do to get back on track with my career path, and delve into the great mystery of buying a home...and as ministry concerns faded away I was well down the road to reality.

Ok maybe I exaggerated a little in my last post...I think you might get one last sack supper as part of a severance package

True....but being corps you could get booted out, dropped from active corps, marked and avoided, delivered unto Satan, excommunicated, terminated, erased, cursed and called-out beyond belief, blacklisted, have them put on your permanent record that they wish they could strike you from the record, no sack supper for you, forfeiture of Holy Spirit dove pin and corps name tag, do not pass go - instead go immediately to jail and witness to the spirits in prison... On the blight side - you could start your own TWI-clone.... ...or go legit and develop an honest career path, buy a home, etc. in which case you're raising yourself up by your own bootstraps while at the same time shoving a boot up the a$$es of those dumba$$es at HQ.

Grace , once again I thank you for your service to our country and even though I have never been in the service - over the years I've worked around enough military, former military, and I have even worked on military bases and defense contractor's factories as a security technician contractor - to get a sense of it all. Now I have been in the way corps and would have to agree with you saying the corps were treated worse than if they were in military service. Because in the military there are set standards - standards of excellence, I might add - as well as protocols - that make sense! There's preparation and training for scenarios in the real world - the bottom line is that it's all geared to preparing men & women to provide much needed defense and support services for our country and even beyond our borders too! Way corps training ......mmmmm...maybe wierwille's intent was to develop crack troops for God - but in actuality the standards, protocols, training etc. we're all based on one measly little narcissistic megalomaniac (wierwille) and bottom line the focus was always "what would wierwille do?" Motto of the way corps "it is written" ?!?! That's only a partial rendition - I wish you could see it in the original - it's actually "it is written in PFAL". The way corps training prepared men and women to provide a "much needed" defense and support services for wierwille's little make-believe world of the way international.

I love how Grace roots around older threads and digs up some gems…good for review...in case there’s a pop quiz someday…thanks Grace for bringing another gem to my attention ! …anyway… Something in what Ham & Skyrider said got me thinking about the out-and-out hero-worship that goes on at TWI. I came across something in a small booklet ages ago – around the time of my leaving TWI – it was about cults – especially abusive and controlling cults. It basically said an abusive and controlling cult is usually built around a charismatic leader. I’ve got some links below that might interest some folks – but I wanted to comment on something I see at Grease Spot occasionally and how it ties into this hero-worship stuff….i hope this isn't way off topic… Well, it’s basically this: have you ever been in a discussion and find a person or persons who is/are unable to look objectively at wierwille – I mean as you might analyze anything - based on facts, things observable, something that can be measured, categorized, documented, etc. rather – these folks who are still admirers of wierwille, take it as almost a personal affront if you say something critical about wierwille’s licentious lifestyle, unabashed plagiarism, megalomania, etc. It seems to me the set of values that ignores such things sacrifices fact for fiction. The fiction being this myth of wierwille’s greatness…the only thing “patriarchal” about him was that he founded an abusive cult and he was intent on “fathering” worshipful goons to keep the cult alive. == == == == dangerous cult leaders hero-worship cult of personality

Welcome to Grease Spot and I hope you enjoy looking around here. I am a little curious about you saying you operate all nine all the time. Can you elaborate on that? And do look around Grease Spot there's a lot of stuff here that may be of interest to you. Like vp's plagiarism. I know you said vp paved the way but there's another thing that's important to consider - vp lied about his academic knowledge of biblical Greek and fabricated his experiences with the Holy Spirit (there's lots of threads on Grease Spot that get into this btw) bottom line is - vp was not just a flagrant plagiarist - he was an incompetent teacher; his academic shortcomings become evident when even someone with a basic working knowledge of biblical Greek sees how vp parsed a passage in his book "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today". For someone like vp who taught "integrity and accuracy" were so important when it comes to the Bible - I find it extremely odd there was so little of either in all he said and done. When it's said someone "paved the way" it usually means they made the journey easier for others to follow using their pathway. If you care to look a little deeper on Grease Spot you'll also find many accounts of the followers of vp who were on a long and arduous journey in frustration and disappointment. I don't think most folks appreciate someone "paving the way" to that!

Now wait just a minute ! What about the time - and I was there too - what about the time Ted collapsed on stage and Craig was on the scene "booms quick" ministering to Ted, praying for his heart - after which Ted said softly to him "Craig, it's my knee" .... uhm....errr....ok never mind, Skyrider I see your point.

Great thread and great posts by all ! I wanted to respond to some things at the beginning of this thread. After looking up the definition on self-identity (see my links below) I think wierwille’s homogenization machine of indoctrination (classes, programs, teachings, events, etc.) was the business end of the identity-altering process. Like a drunken wannabe artist, wierweille’s technique was to slop googobs of drab colors over a unique and original work of art (each person)…I bet he was so proud of what he “made” out of those who followed him….”our father in the word” yeeeecchh !....in the art world I think that would be called vandalism. The posts I’ve quoted resonated with me because I was young and impressionable when I got into the way international; and like many young folks I wanted to fit in. It didn’t really matter what unique qualities or potential you may have had – as far as TWI was concerned it’s all malleable and all gets slammed around anyway…put through the wringer… so the remix is something more suitable…or rather useful to a new social context – life in a cult. I have always been an inquisitive and creative person…for this thread - to sum up what 12 years of involvement with the way international did - it was to help me slip into “something” more restraining – like maybe a mental/emotional straightjacket. I’ll keep it brief here – but I’ve mentioned on other threads how within the first year of my involvement local leadership put the kibosh on my almost incessant reading and asking questions of stuff in the Old Testament and the Gospels – instead I was encouraged to keep reviewing PFAL stuff. And as far as any creative outlets I had (drawing, painting, writing poetry and songs) that also suffered a slow and boring death by the stifling “ambiance” of way-culture. By the time I made it into the corps I gave up on trying to do anything creative and resigned myself to becoming a good salesman and marketing manager for whatever the way international had to offer. but I think the human spirit is resilient – and once freed from a cult’s control – we can bounce back…and I’m not saying we revert back to what we were before we got involved with a cult. Life and growth doesn’t work that way. Hopefully we’re wiser and the injuries are slowly healing and the scar tissue makes us a little tougher too. == == == == Definition of Self-identity : the quality that makes a person or thing different from others webster on self identity == == == the recognition of one's potential and qualities as an individual, especially in relation to social context. oxford on self identity

i don't know...do they have Drambuie on tap? there seems to be something "spiritual" going on with that hand eyeballing me

oh my God !!!! how evil and corrupt can one cult leader be ?!?!

Great points Waysider & Penworks ! Ya know, this is one of the most fascinating things about my cult experience – and perhaps the driving force that compels me to keep coming to Grease Spot…It’s almost like a compulsive obsession I have - to better understand cult tactics and how and why I fell for them…Grease Spot uses a two prong approach – here posters not only examine & expose cult tactics, doctrine, practice, etc. but also reveal the weaknesses in their own thought process whereby they bought into the cult hook, line and sinker. In my humble opinion, this two prong approach is critical to one’s recovery from cult involvement. I have been involved in all aspects of security for some 38 years now and think a similar two prong approach is necessary when addressing any security concerns. A competent security consultant will not only keep up on the latest motives & methods of the bad guys but will also assess existing strengths and weaknesses of their client...Perhaps an axiom for security concerns holds true for cult prevention as well – good honest people are to be ever vigilant…whereas the bad guys are always looking for where vigilance is low or non-existent. When it first dawned on me that I had been deceived by wierwille & company – it was a little overwhelming and perhaps a bit of a shock. Almost like a bank president wondering in disbelief “how could those thieves pull off this huge heist with all the security measures I have in place?” But I think it takes a lot of time…self-reflection…honesty and humility to come to grips with the fact that it was partly an “inside job” - wierwille could not have pulled it off without some inadvertent cooperation on my part. Like Waysider was explaining – wierwille sold us a bill of goods – and we paid dearly for that in time, money & resources…It’s like some weird coordinated effort of wierwille’s disarmingly charming attack on our weak or non-existent critical thinking skills.

I like that tune also, Waysider....and I'm hearing a pattern here...they both sound Polka-ish...anyway...I understood one word in last tune "thought I was your only vato"...I worked with another technician years ago - he was from Mexico...anytime we were assigned to the same project we'd announce "vato and gringo together again"

As Ricky used to say "Luuuuuucy, jhew got some 'splainin' to do"

fyi Waysider, i think that tune is tongues without interpretation...unless it's straight prophecy in their own language

Watched the 2 hour special on Watergate last night - this being its 45th anniversary; there were some key points that double resonated with me - not only as a citizen of this great country but also as a former follower of wierwille's cult. One point in particular really stood out to me - near the end of the special - i think it was Bernstein who made the comment (following up on all the cover-ups, blame-shifting, throwing people under the bus, lies piled on top of more lies, etc. ) that Nixon never apologized - after which Bernstein said something along the lines of how that might have made a difference in how everyone mentally processed the whole situation. In Nixon's case or concerning wierwille / TWI - an apology...an admission of guilt...acknowledging that the responsibility for criminal acts falls squarely on their shoulders - will not magically right ALL the wrongs - but it will make a difference in how folks process what has occurred- maybe even fostering a sense of what GOOD government SHOULD do - be it the government of church or state...and perhaps in the case of those exploited by wierwille / TWI , begin the long overdue process of healing and resolution.

"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. The challenge of civilizations has been to set up institutional arrangements that take into account the human condition and channel it in ways that encourage the good and place a check on evil. What this means is that in our universities, in our churches, and in our political systems – in virtually every human institution – we need checks and balances. We need accountability. And we need transparency. The concentration of power — when combined with pride, arrogance, ambition, and fear — can lead even impressive people to act in unjust and repellant ways." Very incisive above quote from Solzhenitsyn, Skyrider - thanks for that post…and funny thing – I was thinking of that whole Penn State sex abuse scandal the other day in light of the occasional post on Grease Spot that suggests cutting wierwille some slack over his licentious and predatory lifestyle because he also “taught the word like it hadn’t been known since the first century.” The “logic” behind that kind of thinking by secret wierwille admirers is beyond me! Regarding the Penn State scandal we’ve heard about how the general public was so outraged…offended…horrified by such behavior and people looking the other way. Yet it’s odd how that sense of what’s right goes out the window for some die-hard wierwille fans. I don’t know – maybe it takes the insidiously-powerful-mind-twisting tactics of a cult leader to throw off one’s moral compass – causing a major shift in one’s sense of what’s right. Well, cult leaders are shifty after all. …

Thanks Rocky – and to John & Hope also for sharing that letter. I get a kick out of Rivenbark’s answer to the issues John brought up…And now ladies and gentleman…drum roll please…we come to the magic portion of our show…The Grate and Malfeasant Rivenbark will attempt to make all TWI-negativity disappear – a feat that has only been duplicated by previous charlatans within the confines of their own compound: “…I would like for you to come and visit us at headquarters. We’d house you and feed you, and show you around for a couple of days. This is the only way I know that could resolve your concerns. Come and see for yourself. Many of your points seem to reflect Internet defaming rather than what actually exists. I’d be happy to sit with you and discuss your suggestions.” == == == == == Then, I love how John (in the response to Rivenbark’s invite to HQ) in various ways calls out bull$hit on her diversionary tactics: “…Does the Word not work everywhere? Do you not have other communication methods available such as email or telephone? Come and see what? Maybe things are fine at headquarters, but that is not the case on the field. Dr. Wierwille always taught that the life of the ministry is on the field in the household fellowships…” == == == == Thanks again for sharing this letter it’s almost like an episode of Penn & Teller: Fool Us for cults. Love and peace to John & Hope T-Bone

millions thousands now smoking what do you think his soot looked like? I bet it wouldn't win a beauty contest

you know, Skyrider - a lot of folks at Grease Spot are use to having more options now... option 1: burn vpw's books on Uncle Harry Day - aka Burn the Chaff day * option 2: everyone stack their books on the junk table at the Advanced Class - hoping the towering stacks will fall over onto "the teacher" (how awful crushed by his own words) option 3: put your old name tag (corps, WOW, fellow-laborers, staff, etc.) on a little chain and use it like a pendant for guidance - "should I burn or shred the books ? burn....shred....burn.....shred.....burn....shred... * please note : option 2 requires access to a time machine or some type of quantum leap device....and hopefully group-rates are available...and remember as always, time travel at your own risk.

Waysider, you have a knack for writing thought-provoking posts; especially ones like this - for me they're like a bunker buster - the initial impact paves the way for delivering an idea worth reflecting upon more deeply. I usually do think that much of the material in vpw's books is conceited and pretentious in nature - as well as it being only part of The Way's complex indoctrination process so folks "learn" to accept certain beliefs uncritically... but the reason I had to circle back to this post was the nagging thought of what kind of effect or impact would vpw's books have on a reader who is not familiar with how The Way operates nor have ever been involved with it. Well...of that I cannot speak since I was in it for 12 years....the closest I can relate to the idea is recalling one of the goofy tangents our branch got into over the positive confession stuff in vpw's blue book "The Bible Tells Me So". Some clergy introduced us to a few books by other authors (not associated with The Way) that goes along the lines of the health and wealth gospel, name it and claim it type studies - like in vpw's Blue book...one book title was something like "The Tongue - The Creative Force." ....honestly, positive confessions may help one's self-esteem or adjust a bad attitude - but alter reality? Naaaaw don't think so. My point is - trying to employ the ideas in vpw's books - even if "reinforced" by non-way books spewing out the same type of nonsense - (whether with or without any "help" from The Way's "tech support team" = the local way-believers ) can often lead to great frustration besides letting your hopes down.

I came upon this thread indirectly – I think from Skyrider making reference to it on his 1989-1998 Timeline: Insanity on Steroids thread…anyway, just wanted to comment here. At Grease Spot I occasionally experience little “realizations”….it’s getting another small glimpse of the big picture…another layer of the onion is peeled back. I love to analyze something to the nth degree but that can only get you so far if all you’re doing is theorizing with little practical experience in the matter. Regarding another thread The Way Corps: Victims or Oppressors I was trying to narrow down the reason for TWI’s quick demise – and Skyrider made the point one could easily make the case for multiple factors in its downfall – and the most notable factor in my opinion – now, after mulling over this thread – is the unreasonable and unsustainable demands made on the way corps. My wife and I left TWI barely out of in-residence way corps training. We were not yet worn down by years of the daily grind as active corps on the field. Regarding “a lifetime of Christian service” – we were just cranking up the old treadmill. After reading Penworks’ Undertow, and some of the stories of Skyrider and other seasoned corps – I feel a tinge of survivor’s guilt in that I was not put through the wringer - aka the daily grind of the TWI-machine – a lean, mean, exploiting machine – and from what I gather, the wheels turned slowly but ground exceedingly fine. I want to leave a final note to way corps still involved with TWI. I still have fond memories of the many good and decent folks I met while at the Rome City campus. We were all so idealistic, filled with hope, determined that we would make a difference in The Way and in the world. And to you all I say…you deserve better ! You should find a group, a charity, a church, a community, a service…someplace that is worthy of your talents. You are not disposable! Love and peace T-Bone