GrouchoMarxJr

The real question here is whether or not you believe that Abe Vigoda was raised from the dead?

...I don't think there ever was a 2nd gear... The Ohio grifter only had one purpose in mind...filling his own egotistical needs.

Excie...where can I find Jimmy's manuscript? Is it online?

Reading this thread from 10 years ago reminded me of an incident I am aware of... A few years ago someone I know called one of the splinter group leaders asking for prayer...the splinter group leader asked them if they were officially "prayer partners" in his ministry...which really means...are you sending me money. They said no and the splinter group leader refused to pray for them...it's all part of the "God business" dontchaknow.

The corps training was billed as a 4 year training program...with an option to take assignments afterwards. That's what the brochure said. That's what I signed up for. Soon after arriving at Emporia for my first year in residence, Martindale announced to everyone that the corps is NOT a 4 year training program but a lifetime commitment! If we thought it was only a 4 year commitment, we were "spiritually out to lunch"...everyone sat there smiling with glassy eyes, agreeing to everything he said...not me! I called .... on him...I accused twi of bait and switch and announced that I had committed to 4 years...no more. If it was a lifetime commitment, why were they not honest up front? My remarks were met with disdain and I was immediately sent to Rome City to get me away from the others...before I polluted others with my "rebellious" attitude. Needless to say, it did not end well. I never returned for my final year...I was always amazed at how so many people deferred their own council to twi leadership. Mindless sheep...not to mention that after one year in residence, I saw very little value in their "training" program...after all, I already knew how to pack a suitcase and it never sat well with me that I was paying them to work.

"So if I don't believe pfal was a scam I don't get to post???" Seeing that I am reading your post, I assume you do get to post... ...but trust me, it was a scam. The only thing missing was Ron Popeil

Back in the 70's when most of us got involved with twi, there was no internet. The information age, as we know it today, did not exist...All a person has to do is google the name Wierwille or The Way International and there is a mountain of information describing in detail exactly what an insideous little cult it really was. Makes me wonder how the Sowers deal with that? The old timers still hanging around must have developed a new narrative about how the debbil is responsible for all the exposes found throughout the internet. Maybe it goes something like this: "The dark forces of this world have had over 30 years to cover up the truth with lies. Lies regarding our father in the word and his ministry. Trying to keep people from hearing the truth" Shame on the old timers who promulgate such bull.......they know better...or at the very least...SHOULD know better.

Interesting thread... The way that I remember it, the longer I was involved, the more moments of clarity I had...the first time I took the class, I was swept away with it... hook, line and sinker. Everytime I took the class after that, I began to question it more and more...until finally I saw that it was riddled with errors. Not to mention seeing the difference in top leadership...between what they taught and how they behaved. Peer pressure and wanting to please leadership was the basis for responding on cue with scripted responses until finally I had enough and didn't care anymore. There was a point in time when I went from being a true believer to becoming someone who faked it...until I could not fake it any longer...my heart would no longer allow it. At the very end of my involvement, when I knew it was all a scam, I hung out a few more weeks just to get my 2 cents worth in...made a feeble attempt to pull back the curtain so that other's could see the great Oz was not so great afterall...After waking from the delusional twi dream world and looking back into the glassy eyes of those still under it's spell...Now THAT was a real moment of clarity for me...

The only word that comes to my mind is...pathetic. Do these youngsters even know about the plagiarism, the adulterous affairs, the suicides, the lies, the control, the broken lives? They live in a little pretend world based on the lies of their fathers...Walter has become a joke...no wait, Walter always was a joke. Did I see Sarah W playing the piano? Maybe they should have invited Craig...that would have made for an even funnier video

The fact that Wierwille demanded blind loyalty is very revealing about the man...He craved attention and adulation which indicates that he was insecure, egotistical, and narcistic. He demanded to be the center of attention at all times and felt he had the right to use people sexually, financially and any other way he could think of. He loved no one but himself and was the antithesis of what a Christian minister should be...and yet...AND YET...there are still many people who look upon him as their "father in the word" and still show great respect for him. Hogwash! If he tried to do today what he did then...this low life grifter would be thrown in jail

A memory I have of Geer... I was in the 10th corps during the MAL pack fiasco and Geer and his wife had the room next to mine which means we shared a bathroom... One day I was walking down the hall and Geer was going through his survival pack in the middle of the hallway...checking every detail to make sure he would be ready, no doubt, when the attack took place :)...as I passed him, I smiled and said "Hi Chris"...he grabbed his knife in his hand and glared at me like I was a mortal threat to him...This guy would have been a perfect fit for Hitler's gestapo. He made Tom Berenger's role in the movie Platoon look like Mr Rogers http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Platoon+Tom+Beringer&id=605F2BC2EA06E50A7E1E6DAEF91ECB792FB83F4C&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=BD98D6272834DF25BA3892F3BC9F9B2F509928C7&selectedIndex=16

"I demand my money, time and effort refunded" Good luck with that...lemme know how you make out. ...but skyrider has it right with Geer...he was an obsessive sociopath...the guy always gave me the creeps

"I've said REPEATEDLY.....going into the corps program was THE WORSE DECISION I EVER MADE." I'll second that sentiment... I believe that Wierwille stole the idea of way corps training from a program that was run by E. Stanley Jones...it was called the Ashram program, where students lived, ate and worked with their teachers...The idea came from Hindus in India and then adapted to Christianity by Jones. Of course when Jones ran it, it was a loving atmosphere of learning by example versus Wierwille's perverted version of indoctrination and abuse. Wierwille mentions Jones as one of the Christian leaders who influenced him... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Stanley_Jones

Christian puppeteers...."You move your mouth, your lips..." Sorry, couldn't resist. :)

Many good posts here...I especially enjoyed Word Wolfs... As someone who endured the corps training, I would make the following observations: 1- I learned almost immediately that they really didn't give a rat's foot about any of us. There was no Christian love...only attempts at manipulation and control. 2-Even as twi failed in so many of their programs, the corps training was probably their biggest failure. They failed to deliver legitimate biblical classes, they failed to provide an environment for Christian growth and they failed in their examples of Christian leadership...the whole thing was a waste of time 3-The level of dishonesty at both Emporia and Rome City was almost palatable. They continually lied and deceived people. The entire program was sociopathic in nature. They had no conscience. Whether it was sexually abusing you, throwing you (under a bus) out on your ear or relegating you to a life of humiliating mediocrity...their only concern was their own egos and their own bellies...If a young corps person were to hold a pistol to his head out of pure despair, the only concern that the twi leadership had was that the blood didn't splatter on to their shoes... Scum...the whole lot of them

No doubt Ham Guru...I think you summed it up quite well. These good folks who continue to follow their respective splinter groups, deserve what they get. My advice?...get over it...have enough courage to live your own life without taking directions from some jerk in the God business...or you may find yourself on your knees snorkling the sausage of some guy in a brown suit.

What say ye?

The people who I still associate with from my twi days, were friends BEFORE twi...friends by choice not by association. Every now and then I will look up an old twi friend on the internet and we will exchange pleasantries...other than that...nada...and just as well

Well said skyrider... An organization whose foundation was built upon plagiarism, wrong doctrines, sexual abuse, manipulation, indoctrination, out right lies, love of money, love of power over others, ego trips, disregard and disrespect for it's followers...what else could be expected? What kind of fruit will grow from this kind of tree? "Was the Wierwille ministry all a ruse?"...The short answer is yes it was...

It's worthy to mention that the prosecutor claims there was no contract...the defense attorney does not agree

I have no idea why Steve would do what he did...other than the $70 million:) It's my understanding that even though what he did was unethical, it may not have been illegal Will give Paula your love

A little more detailed info on how he pulled it off... http://www.deceptology.com/2013/01/how-to-run-montana-phone-fraud-operation.html

From what I've read, he scammed people by making telemarketing calls (recording them)...he would ask a question that nearly everyone answers "yes" to...he would then edit the tapes so that it sounded like the people were saying "yes" to buying his voice mail service...they would then be billed about $14 bucks a month on their phone bills under miscellaneous...the tip off to the FCC was that he sold over 119,000 accounts and only 12 were actually in use...119,000 times 14 bucks is over a million dollars a month! Multiply that by about 6 years and there's the 70 million. Scheesh! I think I would have quit after a few months and walked away with enough to live on easy street...did he think he would never get caught? To answer Excie's question, I think he had the ministry of Flim Flam. :)

Steve was a grad of the 4th corps and was an ordained twi clergy...his wife Susie died of breast cancer years ago and he apparently remarried...here's more info: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Montana-Family-Runs-70-Million-52M-Phone-Charge-Scheme-323103.shtml

Does anyone have the scoop on former twi leader Steve Sann? Apparently he sold a building to some medical marijuana growers and almost went to jail over it...but it gets worse...the link I'm providing describes new charges involving a scam called "cramming"...where he set up some bogus companies that were able to add charges to people's phone bills for services they never received...to the tune of $70 million dollars!!! I knew Steve and always liked him...just wondering if anyone has any additional info. :) http://www.ktvq.com/news/man-facing-federal-drug-charges-tied-to-alleged-phone-billing-scheme/