Twinky

...opened his mouth to deliver a sermon (with me as the example, of course)... but instead of yelling at me, drew a deep breath, seized me round the waist and swung me round and round, all the time humming (none too tunefully) melodies from Athletes of the Spirit. Following his lead, the assembled Corps also started to dance, some well and lightly, and some emulating spirits of lust and debauchery. In the distance, Way Productions could be heard rehearsing. The scene took on the appearance of a Bollywood musical. But then, in the distance could be seen striding towards us the purposeful figure of Rosalie ...

For what it's worth to this discussion, the seller (if male) is Spouse Corps 10. Unless it's his wife who is the seller, and they just use the one E-bay name for items either of them sells. Would the tapes have been "given" to him as Spouse Corps (only SC?) Or would they have been given to him (not his wife) because he was the "head of the family"? Or were they "given" to her (on what basis?) and she has "given" them to him? I really don't care. I am rather concerned about anyone who would pay $5000 for this stuff. If they have that much cash to dispose of - they could give it to some charity where it would be of real value. Or they could just put their greenbacks in a paper bag and toss it out with the trash.

"Marry in haste - repent at leisure." (old adage) She should demand at least her money back from the firm that didn't vet the applicants - not that that's much compensation for a wrecked life!!! A colleague of mine married a man who she met through the "small ads" in the local newspaper. He was new to the area. Her friend saw the ad and told XXX that the advertiser just sounded like her sort of man. They met and liked each other straight away and married after a few months. They seemed very happy and she was blissful. That was some years ago. No reason to suppose it wouldn't work out but I left to go overseas a year or so after the wedding. ...There are some decent men out there...

If he was a victim, he has had ample opportunity to see the error of his ways. He self-reports a good childhood, though with perhaps paternal pressure to "achieve" (thinking of the Fortune 500 alleged ability). Early Corps have said he was a nice guy. So duped, perhaps. A victim of VPW. And like all victims, with the opportunity to change. And not become a victimizer himself. If he did have the decent background that he self-reports, he must have had some good stuff to fall back upon. Decent moral background. He said he had a church background; perhaps it was rather legalistic. He used to go on quite a lot about dogs returning to their vomit and I sometimes felt that he was fighting a return back to some place he wasn't comfortable with - but perhaps he was really fighting to stay where he was (!). He also used to say that people on staff would come up to him and say things that would help him. He mentioned something about that in the "Leaders Tapes" and said similar remarks at Corps Night. So he had ample opportunity to consider his ways and to depart from them. Instead, he dismissed and disgraced those who really confronted him. Conscience seared with a hot iron... Potato - well done for escaping the background that you started life with. Seeing it for what it was, and actively choosing to do something different in a positive way. That's a choice available to any victim.

Think this one has done its dash now, so signing out...

RumRunner, that's one awesome mother you have there. A living treasure. Your dad's a pretty good guy, too. As to VPW, something must have happened to predispose him to that sort of behavior. I find myself wondering about his parents and in particular his father. What were they like? Over-zealous? Too strict? Subtle or not-so-subtle put-downs? Gave him too little attention or praise when he was a young kid? And what about his parents' parents? Given that we all have weaknesses, and abuse in one form or another is often generational - observed behavior and felt, too, perhaps, from a young age, reinforced by years of neglect or abuse... Abused people (victims) often themselves turn into abusers. I don't know that I ever heard much talk of his parents; perhaps early WC heard him recount some tales? But even so, that doesn't excuse his horrendous behavior later. ESPECIALLY when masquerading as a minister. At some stage it got to "conscience seared with a hot iron" - assuming he ever had much of a conscience to sear.

WG and Waysider, apologies accepted, just a slight and easily sorted misunderstanding Had the WC been all that it had been "sold" as, things might have been very different, for all of us. I saw it as an opportunity to learn to serve, in a Godly manner - not a place to be served up as mincemeat. Actually I wasn't in long after graduation - I liked helping people (gasp!) and I was (am?) far too intelligent a woman (gasp!) to fit into the mold they thought I should. I was banished with many cruel and humiliating remarks flung after me. It's when you see the heart and loving kindness of ministers from mainstream churches that you really realize how ... faulty ... the WC training was. I 'fess up as being there in the Martindale reign of terror. Even so: I met up with some really great people there, still with a tremendous heart to love and serve God - in fact, most of them. But the legalism was doing its best to squash that out of them. I am very sorry towards those on the field who were hurt by legalistic WC. You deserved better. It is good to hear that approaches do not seem to have been made (yet?) via contacts from the WC site.

Bolshevik - high speed internet in every room :blink: - wow, we are moving on now! Presumably that means there are no lawsuits pending. WG - it's not an elitist thing as you are implying; it's just that only WC can register on the WC site. And all I wanted to know is if people had been approached via that site by innie Corps to rejoin - an approach made through rekindled contacts. Obviously that offer can't be made via the WC site to non-WC as there are no non-WC on the site. It's not to say that non-WC won't be approached and invited to return: but it won't be via that particular website. Some of the WC on the site do say openly that they are still with TWI.

Deuteronomy 18: 15 "The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me [Moses] from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. 16 This is what you requested from the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, 'Let us not continue to hear the voice of the Lord our God or see this great fire any longer, so that we will not die! ' 17 Then the Lord said to me, 'They have spoken well. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 I will hold accountable whoever does not listen to My words that he speaks in My name. 20 But the prophet who dares to speak in My name a message I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods-that prophet must die.' 21 You may say to yourself, 'How can we recognize a message the Lord has not spoken?' 22 When a prophet speaks in the Lord's name, and the message does not come true or is not fulfilled, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him. Two responsibilities here: A.The people are responsible to listen (and do) the words that the true prophet speaks. They will know this by whether the prophecy comes true (or not). So there is a objective, qualitative, standard. B.The prophet must speak truly, at risk of his own life - and the scorn of the people. So anyone who speaks for God must, sooner or later, see some of his prophecies come to pass - actual prophecies, not being "tuned in" to world events and being able to see what's coming in worldly terms. God gave us five senses to use, so that we could gain knowledge that way. Moses himself, for example, sent out spies into the Promised Land - he didn't just rely on "revelation" from God. But a long time before, in Exodus 7, there is the prediction of hornets driving out the occupants of the Promised Land, and the record of that fulfilment in Joshua 24. Weaknesses in an enemy' defences or structural buildings might be observable through the five senses - but the arrival of hornets? If the "prophet" never sees anything coming to pass, he must wonder about the quality of his prophecies. And know that the people also wonder about the quality of the so-called prophecies. Unless, of course, the prophecy is so vague as to be meaningless (more along the "forthtelling" line than a prediction that the world will end in 1914 or that Christ will return in 2109 or whenever). (Of course, VPW gave himself an "out" on that by saying that it was true whether or not it came to pass in his lifetime.) And there are scores of prophets who spoke of the coming of the Messiah, but the child Jesus was not born for centuries or even millennia afterwards.

Waysider, not sure what you're trying to say with that video, which adds nothing to the specific request:

This post really relates to those who have served in the Way Corps. I've noticed on the Way Corps site that there are a number of Corps signing up who are still in TWI. Obviously the policy of "no using the internet" has long since gone by the board. In a post there, I saw that someone has suggested that current serving Corps may be seeking to hook up with dropped Corps with a view to inviting dropped Corps back to TWI. Hooking up again with old friends and acquaintances is one thing; I'm just wondering if anyone has been approached by former Corps with the invitation to return? If any of you who are "out" are now in contact through the WC site with "innie Corps", how have they been to speak to/email with?

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects.

Traditionally in the UK pancakes on Shrove Tuesday are eaten with fresh orange juice squeezed over them, and a sprinkle of sugar. Or squeeze a fresh lemon over instead of the orange. But actually, they are really nice as a wrap for fresh fruit, as GC says. I had some particularly refreshing ones last summer (very hot) - the pancakes were wrapped round slices of fresh and juicy watermelon. The crunchiness was lovely.

Okay - these all just got sent to me... the second is a bit near the bone for GSC patrons... and maybe the fourth one... A little boy was attending his first wedding. After the service, his cousin asked him, "How many women can a man marry?" "Sixteen," the boy responded. His cousin was amazed that he had an answer so quickly. "How do you know that?" "Easy," the little boy said. "All you have to do is add it up, like the Bishop said, 4 better, 4 worse, 4 richer, 4 poorer." ______________________________ After a church service on Sunday morning, a young boy suddenly announced to his mother, "Mom, I've decided to become a minister when I grow up." "That's okay with us, but what made you decide that?" "Well," said the little boy, "I have to go to church on Sunday anyway, and I figure it will be more fun to stand up and yell, than to sit and listen." ______________________________ A 6-year-old was overheard reciting the Lord's Prayer at a church service, "And forgive us our trash passes, as we forgive those who passed trash against us." ______________________________ A boy was watching his father, a pastor, write a sermon. "How do you know what to say?" he asked. "Why, God tells me." "Oh, then why do you keep crossing things out?" ______________________________ A little girl became restless as the preacher's sermon dragged on and on. Finally, she leaned over to her mother and whispered, "Mommy, if we give him the money now, will he let us go?" ______________________________ ! After the christening of his baby brother in church, little Johnny sobbed all the way home in the back seat of the car. His father asked him three times what was wrong. Finally, the boy replied, "That priest said he wanted us brought up in a Christian home, and I want to stay with you guys!" ______________________________ A teacher asked her Sunday School class to draw pictures of their favourite Bible stories. She was puzzled by Kyle's picture, which showed four people on an airplane, so she asked him which story it was meant to represent. "The Flight to Egypt ," was his reply. Pointing at each figure, the teacher said, "That must be Mary, Joseph, and Baby Jesus. But who's the fourth person?" "Oh, that's Pontius - the pilot!" ______________________________ The Sunday School Teacher asks, "Now, Johnny, tell me frankly do you say prayers before eating?" "No sir," little Johnny replies, I don't have to...My mom is a good cook." ______________________________ A college drama group presented a play in which one character would stand on a trap door and announce, "I descend into hell!" A stagehand below would then pull a rope, the trapdoor would spring, and the actor would drop from view. The play was well received. When the actor playing the part became ill, another actor who was quite overweight took his place. When the new actor announced, "I descend into hell!" the stagehand pulled the rope, and the actor began his plunge, but became hopelessly stuck. No amount of tugging on the rope could make him descend. One student in the balcony jumped up and yelled: "Hallelujah! Hell is full!" ______________________________ A little girl was sitting on her grandfather's lap as he read her a bedtime story. From time to time, she would take her eyes off the book and reach up to touch his wrinkled cheek. She was alternately stroking her own cheek, then his again. Finally she spoke up, "Grandpa, did God make you?" "Yes, sweetheart," he answered, "God made me a long time ago." "Oh," she paused, "grandpa, did God make me too?" "Yes, indeed, honey," he said, "God made you just a little while ago." Feeling their respective faces again, she observed, "God's getting better at it, isn't he ?"

Progress is creeping on... Had a good fondle at Tuxy this morning. I also managed to weigh her (weigh me + cat, let her go, work out difference). She seems to weigh about 8lb/4kg. She is not a small cat, and her avowed intention is to eat, all at once, every Go-Cat biscuit that comes into the house. When fondling her, I noticed she has a very fresh chunk out of one ear just below the point - not just a tear, but an actual very small piece missing - with a fresh bloody scab on the wound. Looks like Crypto has learned to fight back (well, she has!!) and these two had an active night last night. I took Tuxy a walk up the garden path this morning (in my arms). I needed to check if the dustmen had been. Tuxy was terrified by the time I got to the garden gate, wriggling to get away. She calmed down when I turned round to come back to the house, and walked back down the path. She is fascinated by, but hates, new and different things. Crypto is definitely getting more assertive and I've noticed her have an unprovoked poke at Tuxy on a couple of occasions. Mind you, Tuxy still chases or gratuitously hits at Crypto much more!! Crypto seems to welcome a little fondle nowadays. She is quite willing to let me scratch the back of her neck and run my hand along her spine a couple of times. Crypto has also begun to develop her voice a little more. She usually makes a content sort of "crrroooo" sound (rather like a dove!) and she has a very soft, shy little miaow. But yesterday I got a rather loud assertive miaow. She has learned to make a noise if she wants to ask for food. Rather pleasing. But slow progress, or what? Oh if Tuxy is 8lb, that would make Crypto probably about 5lb, not as much as 6lb. She is only about 2/3 Tuxy's size, as far as I can tell. She was the runt of the litter. Too gentle a personality to fight for herself.

Seriously... Innies, what "teachings" are there about the current economic climate? Or is it all about not looking to worldly circumstances? Not fearing? Is any practical help being talked about? Has any been given? Perhaps the "softer, kinder" TWI has a better attitude to people who lose their jobs because their employer's business has folded? Or is there a change of tack from the "material prosperity" doctrine to a "spiritual prosperity" doctrine, and confidence in God in the face of adversity?] Are there any cutbacks at HQ?

Oh yes, and something else I do with what I know... be wary of false teachers engage my critical thinking skills don't accept everything just because someone says so be patient with other Christian beliefs that contradict my own understanding...we're all right on some things and wrong on others Because I know more than just scriptures. It's not the scriptures that are wrong, it's the interpretation that may have been given.

What I know is more than what TWI taught. I knew stuff before, I learned some stuff there, and I have learned a lot since. What I am doing with what I know is: living a life of thankfulness showing compassion to those in need being non-judgmental being peaceful and kind enjoying "just being" with God enjoying being with God's other people from a diverse range of Christian beliefs trying to live a life that is a witness, without having to ram Bible verses down the throats of those who don't yet know God I read less, but ponder more on what I do know. I enjoy the delicious "fruit of the spirit" listed in Galatians 5.

How about doing something really controversial and making it easier to immigrate legally? (This works in some many other countries. Europe. Australasia. And the host country benefits AND the immigrant's family back home.) Vet people before they come in, then you can keep out real criminals and leave the ordinary Joe (or maybe Jose) to get on, work a little, and then go back home. If Jose is really entrepreneurial, he will benefit the city or state with his/her business, instead of wasting his/her energies on hiding/evasion, and doing menial jobs. Oh, and you will also benefit (perhaps) by putting bigoted law-enforcers out of business.

Hey Leafy, that's progress for you. With scaredy-pants Crypto, what I've found works is hand-feeding bits of ham (she really likes ham) and holding that pinched firmly in two fingers, and slowly bringing the other hand around (so's not to startle) and stroking/scratching the back of her neck while she tugs at the meat. She will endure the handling because she likes the meat. I make her tug at it for a short while then release it so that she can eat; then do the same again. It's not a "main meal" - just a treat - and maybe 6 times or however long it takes before she has had enough of fondling. Another tip that was given me by a trainer of difficult dogs is to stroke the back with a feather. Both of them really like this and do not see it as a threat. If they go through a scared/aversive period, I resume touching with the feather and they soon come round. Strange, but this was one of the most effective things.

Things I miss... ...Snuggling against Twinkle's soft fur, when she had come in from the fields. She used to smell sweetly of hay. ...Snuggling against Twinkletoes's fur, when he'd come in from the garden. He smelled of fresh green outdoors. I managed to pick up Tuxedo the other day. Her fur smells sort of dusty. Maybe she'd been exploring under the kitchen work units again (such an exciting place, doncha know?). But some progress with these two. Tuxy (Tucks-In) has taken to coming by my chair when I am at the computer, and she mews piteously. There's food in the dish and the litter tray is clean (her usual complaints). What does she want? To be fondled!! I may not pick her up, but I may scratch her neck, ears, back, and stroke all along her. She can be quite demanding that I do this! When I picked her up, she made her usual protest, then snuggled into my arms, purring loudly, and in fact giving for the first time that rather high-pitched purr that cats make when they are really really happy or pleased with themselves. Crypto has also decided that being fondled is not so bad. Lately she has come to me, very cautiously, and she bends her head down in a very specific way which invites me to scratch the back of her neck and at the same time I am also allowed 3 or 4 strokes along her body. This may happen three or four times a day. A long way from picking her up, though. In fact, it's quite significant progress with both of them.

Thank you, Waysider and Rocky.

It's not just musical talent that was controlled. If anyone had any ability or talent in any direction, instead of being thankful that God has endowed us all a little differently, any talents had to be totally subjugated to TWI / PFAL thinking. Or the talented person was belittled and their ability sneered at. I have a recollection (vague, and third or nth hand hearsay) that VPW thought the music ministry was very important for TWI. That would be the groups, not the stuff on stage. One of my coordinators wrote a sweet song (and its music) that was very popular in the fellowship and we all loved it when she sang the song. She had been singing it for years. Then one year, around the early 90s, she went to RoA and sang on the Family Stage or some such - anyway, the song came to the attention of Way Prods. Next thing, this song had some of its lyrics changed, an extra verse was added, and it became a Way Prods song commonly sung by someone else AND they, TWI, claimed copyright. She said, gamely, that the additions had made it a better song, but she also seemed rather sad about it. She never got any credit for composing it. Somewhat off topic, Hillsong the group and the Church have attracted adverse criticism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsong See stuff from about half way down the page, and followed up in some of the articles at the bottom of the page. Regardless of any controversy, they're still great songs, very popular in the church I now go to, very popular elsewhere, and often significant chunks of psalms set to modern music. As long as you don't mind the trinitarian bent to some of the songs...

I just looked at this thread for the first time. My goodness me, aren't some of you hard line? Instead of saying, these people deserve to be in prison, why don't you ask WHY they are in prison? What are their circumstances that get them there? What is being done to address their circumstances? If someone is illiterate - do they get reading and writing lessons? If they have been violent is it because they have been abused and have anger management problems - do they get counselling and anger management courses to help them find better ways to cope? If someone has stolen, is it because they really can't make ends meet? Some family tragedy has afflicted them? Violence breeds violence. Brutality breeds brutality. It's hard enough for someone with a prison sentence to get out and find a decent job, or any legal job, afterwards. So what does that do? Push him back into the prison system. Which costs every taxpayer money. Instead if some money were made available to teach skills - there would be a lot more people who could contribute to society. As legal, decent working people. Some prisons I'm aware of have programs that teach prisoners skills for life. Some sort of trade. They get to sit external qualifications. The recidivism rate is very low because these people are integrated back into society. In other countries, there are "restorative justice" programs. These aim to restore offenders back to society by confronting them with the effects of their crimes. Many say it is so painful being confronted by their victims that they would rather go to prison. But the ones who do go through restorative justice programs often realize the error of their ways and do not offend again. If the Sheriff gives some prisoners dog-training skills and a feeling of respect for what they have done, that will go a long way to those prisoners' rehabilitation. If, however, he treats them like caged animals in a zoo, to be kicked whenever he feels like it, he's actually kicking out the welcome mat for their next visit. Which one of you hasn't done something wrong? You just didn't get caught for it. Did you ever "borrow" a pen, or a paperclip, from where you work? Did you ever drive a little carelessly? Did you ever hit out at anything in frustration? Pretty much all of us here have an abused background, to a greater or lesser degree, through our time in TWI. We did things that now we find almost unbelievable. We hurt friends, and relatives; we abused people in the name of God; we may have behaved despicably; we were rude and intolerant; some may have engaged in sexual exploitation (the low end of which is known at the Cafe as "date and switch"). If we had had a decent background to begin with, we may have managed to pull back to that. If we didn't, we have to find out more appropriate ways of dealing with life. It took or takes time, effort, and help to re-train our thinking. Some of those people in prison have lived all their lives like that. They didn't have decent backgrounds or role models to begin with. Violence was their role model. You have had grace and mercy extended in your life. If you have no criminal record, be thankful. Extend some grace and mercy to others. You have done things wrong too, some just in the eyes of God, and some in the eyes of the society in which you live. It's just a question of degree. BTW I don't necessarily advocate not removing people from society; it's what you do with them when you remove them that this post concerns.

How many pinball machines does a man need? :blink: