Twinky

Ah, no, we aren't the "spiritual seed" if we obey as you state. What's your chapter and verse on your proposition? And don't forget, Abraham was born and died waaaay before Moses was even a twinkle in his dad's eye, never mind the time when he was given the ten commandments. Abraham is "pre-law" or "patriarchal" (for those who are into "dispensations"). Therefore, you can't say that Abraham "obeyed the law" as it was later written down. Obeyed different (unwritten) laws, maybe. We can't know what, with precision.

This is why they wouldn't be assembling to discuss religious stuff except on one day/week. If you are seeing a commandment to keep the sabbath, you should also see a commandment to work a full six-day week. This extract is from Deuteronomy, but the Exodus version of the 10Cs reads similarly. I guess if you're not working a six day week, you can't be said to be keeping the sabbath properly. Furthermore, you shouldn't be causing anyone else to break the sabbath, by going out for Sunday (or maybe Saturday) lunch, no shopping at the mall or elsewhere, not driving your car (perhaps equivalent to your animal). Only reason to "work" was for humanitarian reasons: medical emergencies, feeding one's animals, etc. To this day, observant Jews won't turn on a light switch (that's "making a fire" - forbidden elsewhere) or cook a meal (fire, work). They stay home - but they fake home by stringing wires between houses to "enclose" them so that they can walk about and visit each other. Personally I see that as ridiculous and getting close to mocking the Lord, but each to his own.

As well as what WW indicates, it's likely that people worked all day every day and the "sabbath" was the only day off. The only day the men weren't about their business of tending cattle, fields, trading, etc; women more likely in the home tending children, or doing household tasks, or maybe trading. In the evenings, people would eat at home and generally stay home (agricultural community: early to bed, early to rise) or hang out with nearby friends. The times for meeting would be market days (which may have happened on most days, but it's still work, not time to discuss at length) and at "weekends" ie sabbath days. So when else would the Gentiles, or anybody else for that matter, have time to discuss further? I think that what's more important here is that some (but by no means all) of the Jews of Antioch were at that time willing to hear, to consider; and that the community was enlightened and open enough that Gentiles could also hear the message. It might be interesting also to consider where this next reported meeting took place. "Almost the whole city came together" - but not necessarily in the synagogue (smallish building) nor in a temple (with a Court of the Gentiles). In fact, almost certainly not, because the holier-than-thou Jews then got ticked off at Paul & Co. 44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered [where??] to hear the word of the Lord. 45 When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him.. Maybe in the agora/market place? We know from Acts 17 that Paul "reasoned" with people in the market place, having made himself unpopular in the synagogue.

Not "all Christians," Waxit. All Israelites (ie, not just Judeans or "Jews") - yes. All Christians - no. Can you tell us why this issue (above all issues) is important to you? I ask, because there are so many other things we've discussed here at the Café that appear more relevant to our daily lives.

Names of days are arbitrary; in fact, most days are named after pagan gods. When a named day falls is arbitrary. If you're going to get really precise, you have to count the 7th day from the original first "day of rest." Don't envy you that task. Please have a little more respect for people here. You have knocked some very thoughtful people. We have reached our current views after long heart-searching, after sometimes painful journeys out of the bullying and dogmatic approach of TWI. No-one here needs anyone else to try to order us to think in a particular way. By all means, present your argument - for discussion, not for dogma or doctrine. I know you are passionate to understand God and to do your best. Please accept that others are, also, and we are all at different places of our understanding of God. Do what's right for you, now.

Don't you mean, Bored of (Mis)Directors?

Ain't that the truth! How it all overlooks that God is a God of common sense. He doesn't ask us to do stupid things. He asks us to embed his word in our hearts and then act accordingly. Acting against, or ignoring, common sense is "tempting God." Did Jesus think he could fly? Jump off the temple? Did he do stupid things? No. But he could go above and beyond common sense where he needed to. Relationships and lives have been ruined because some leader intervened in a situation about which he had no knowledge whatsoever, but spouted off whatever "wisdom" or random thought he happened to think at the time. And if such "wisdom" were ignored, and then there was a negative outcome, it was the other person's fault because they didn't listen to the wisdom. Never mind that the situation could have been even worse if it were followed. All a sham. And a shame.

Sea water stops coronavirus. (At least, a lot of young people seem to think so. Especially in New Zealand, Australia, possibly places in Africa - and in Texas). https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/us/coronavirus-texas-austin-spring-break-cabo.html

Looks like something based on Bullinger's structures. With a few added bits that may or may not mean something. Is that right?

One of the things we should remember is that when God got around to fashioning our world, he did things - from rest to rest. And the evening and the morning were the first/second/… day. Your day starts from rest (sunset the day before, reset through the night, work through the day, then returns to rest in the evening. Too often we think our day starts when we get up. It doesn't it starts earlier than that: when you rest. And your working week also starts from that position of rest: a time to relax, unwind, enjoy God, breathe, before a full-on week … then rest again.

I work hard, and it's quite physical at times. Generally, I don't do any work on Sunday (unless I have to care for someone, visit and help them in their home). I go to my lovely "community" church and am welcomed by friends. There's so much hanging around both before and after the service! Maybe have lunch with a friend at their house. Then, I maybe go for a long walk and enjoy the freedom of it and relish God's beauty in the fields and wildlife around me. Or I tend my own garden and again, relish God's beauty and ability to provide. Maybe (though not lately nor foreseeably) I visit my Mum. If I don't have this time to rest, the following week is much harder, more tiring. People: take time to breathe. Time to smell the roses. Time to appreciate God's beauty in all the things around you. In the people around you. You need a rest.

United still going? Haven't they gone bust yet, like other airlines?

Sorry, the Quote bit went wrong for me - again. But you can figure out what's what, I'm sure.

Oh goodness, 34 pages. Can you summarise a little, Waxit? So some might say, does that refer to the then Israel, or to the "spiritual Israel" meaning all believers now? You need to look at (if you don't mind the expression) The "heart behind it." Work six days, have a rest and spend time with your family. God knows it's important to have periodic rests. He also knows it's important to keep family structures together (heck, he invented "family") and all hanging out together, eating together, is important for family cohesion and family values (one of which would be respecting the Lord). Equally, however, there are some that did not "keep the Sabbath" on the "Sabbath day." These would include those working in the temple - all the Levites and other officials. We don't know when their "day of rest" would be; perhaps the day before, though that's off topic here. Exodus 31:

So Skyrider, do you want to start a new "Open Letter to Vern Edwards" now? New broom sweeps clean, and all that. Yeah, right.

Oh ho! I checked on their website this morning. This is what it says: Board of Directors Rev. Rosalie F. Rivenbark, Chairman Rev. Vern Edwards Rev. Bill Greene Rev. John Rupp So - JY out, Vern in. Bad choice, Vern.

I'll join you for that tea, George. Well, I went to church this morning. Online church. Those necessary recorded their parts - prayers, notices, songs, and of course sermon (very good, encouraging - we have a great new vicar) - and there's a chat box at the side where the congregation can log in and greet others, and another more private chat box for those who want prayer. It works really well, there's still a real sense of community and shared worship, and yet personal succour.

Salvation is generally nowadays considered to be a process, rather than some one-time event like suddenly having a can of white paint tipped over you.

George, I forget myself. Draw up a chair (keeping your physical distance) and have a coffee and a bite to eat with the other Café patrons. You too, Waxit.

Well, he certainly missed the bit that said, Thou shalt not steal. Because that's exactly what he founded his "ministry" on - a stolen Bible-teaching class. But of course, doncha know, the "ten commandments don't apply now" which means that it's perfectly okay to make idols (like TWI, and like its Timothy statues teach wrong things about God, thus taking him and his name in vain work the congregation to sleepwalking ability disrespect parents specifically and family and friends in general cause the deaths and physical injury of hundreds if not thousands of other people (not to mention the mental injury of likely thousands) sleep with someone else's wife nick other people's goods, money and abilities slander inflicted on many who chose not to believe him or to leave TWI build his personal empire in emulation of those he perceived to be powerful I think the only one he agreed with was, Thou Shalt have no other gods before me" - except that he'd replaced himself as God. Just in case you've forgotten what the 10Cs are, here's a list. There are actually a jolly sight more commandments, but these are the basics as dictated to Moses.

Very true, "social distancing" is a weird expression. Some people, mostly young adult males, not obviously family groups, are still walking about very close together. Strange how quickly that has become quite indecent.

Hi George. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we've met, long long ago. Gartmore, Birminghamor possibly London?

Welcome, George It took 40 years to discover what "normal" churches have been teaching for decades? You have taken the time to study non-TWI related materials, haven't you? There are really good Jewish-interpretation sites, NT-Greek sites, and various reputable commentaries. I looked at your website but not at the articles you included. You've probably made more of an effort than VPW did, for sure; he chose what he thought he could easily palm off as his own, and what he could use to browbeat others. But - - is unlikely to be a fair reflection of genuine study on his part. Rather, he collected snippets, jigsaw pieces as you describe them, that suited his own agenda. He didn't match the completed jigsaw to the picture on the box, but rather fitted the jigsaw pieces together as a small child might, ramming them into approximate places. 2 Tim 4:3 seems apposite. Here's the Berean Study Bible version: For the time will come when men [VPW] will not tolerate sound doctrine [walked away from established church], but with itching ears they [VPW] will gather around themselves teachers [even respected theologians] to suit their own desires [and so to found his own "ministry" to give place to his lusts].

Hey, you could ask him: https://www.peterwade.com/wades/?v=79cba1185463 You'll see a nod to TWI in his bio.