oldiesman

Cool, I don't have an answer to your question...i'll have to put this in ebayance. D-break for me

Golly, wouldn't it be great if God gave us a perfectly renewed mind, as well? We wouldn't have to do anything except let it run on automatic... :)

God. He has been known to talk with sinners.

Right on Rascal. Romans says we prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God by renewing the mind. That is works... Romans 13:14 "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ..." That is works... Victor Paul WierwillePower For Abundant Living Page 329

Me too Mike.

A simple guy, I understand what you're saying, but I think you'd have to know Mike's heart to know if he's magnifying his works above Christ. Besides, this topic really isn't about Mike, it's really about whether PFAL teaches the Word of God. If it does not, we should chuck it... But if it does, we would do well to master it. Or those parts that teach God's Word. Why do you think many folks still cling to PFAL? Because of Wierwille? Nah. Because although it isn't perfect, PFAL teaches God's Word many times over. Just review the materials if you like, and you will see it all over again.

How in the world can someone who pushes PFAL exalt PFAL above Christ, when PFAL itself exalts Christ? That's like saying I won't drink Drambuie, but I will drink scotch. It's the same darn thing, with a little honey added.

A Simple Guy, Welcome to Greasespot. I don't think Mike has exalted PFAL above the finished work of Jesus Christ. To the contrary, much of the PFAL materials expound the finished work of Jesus Christ, and all that He accomplished for us. So by mastering PFAL, one delves in Christ's accomplishments. Here are some examples: You are Righteous Now The Unqualified Commitment The Palms of God Release from Your Prisons God Rescued Us Your Power of Attorney One Baptism Simon of Cyrene and the Cross Christ Bore As He Is, So Are We Ekklesia Bride or Body? Confession of Belief Yields Receipt of Confession God is our Sufficiency Broken Body and Shed Blood We have this Treasure in Earthen Vessels Are You Limiting God? The Church the Great Mystery Revealed Complete in Him The Bondage of the Sabbath Day God's Resting Place Filled to Overflowing The Final Victory

Golly if Christ is back then someone please ask him to come over for a Drambuie.

I would agree, Wierwille was no Solomon. Solomon did far more evil.

In that case, my response would be that morality can be mutable. If we look at Wierwille's track record, it contained both good and evil. It happens. Ask Solomon.

Welcome Bozz

I think you thought what we were doing was the same as what I thought we thought we were doing, which is why what I think what we thought we were doing was doing what I thought we were doing.

I never talk to anyone dead and I don't want to.

That's fine. Yes, let's talk about the history, both good and bad. But that is different from what was said earlier: "there is no baby, toss out the dirty soup".

Yeah that's it.But I don't think it's an idol.

WG, was wondering if you sold it to Galen or putting it on ebay? I would like a VPW paperweight...

The greatest of all miracles is the new birth, and I certainly think that happened in twi, as a result of VP's & many others' efforts in running twigs, teaching pfal, and so forth; ... efforts that God appreciates and that glorifies Him. But I'd be interested to know who among us in our day and time performs signs miracles & wonders like Jesus. And if so, are we to just follow this person(s), and toss out everything else because of lack thereof? Thanks for your comments freeindeed. I feel the same.

Right. He was so justified, that Jesus Himself had to make a personal appearance, to get him to knock it off.

What about King Solomon? God gives revelation to King Solomon, which is good stuff. Later on in life though, Solomon engages in some of the most grotesque reprehensible idolatry that would make your hair curl. Murdering innocent babies.... that's a lot worse than anything our Victor Paul Wierwille ever did. God knew all this, yet He still chose to work with Solomon in his earlier years... And so do you throw out all of Solomon's writings because of his reprehensible behavior? Why did Jesus and God even bother with dealing with a murderer, that is my question...

Rascal didn't you read what I just wrote? God used a murderer, Saul of Tarsus, to represent him. Murder is worse than rape. Surely God could have found someone else to represent him? Jesus even personally appeared to him as he was going to murder some more. You mean to tell me, God as big as He is, couldn't find someone else to represent Him?

I haven't discarded the teacher. Sorry. And I am extremely loathe to having my braincells morphed into hating someone who took part in helping me and others understand God better. Discarding VP, to me, is like somebody helping me out with something, and the thanks I give is giving him/her a kick in the teeth. Not to mention the fact that Victor is a brother in Christ. You don't discard a brother in Christ. God hasn't discarded him. Did Jesus discard Saul of Tarsus when he was murdering Christians? Jesus appeared to Saul as Saul was about to murder some more. Murder them. Sauls actions were reprehensible, worse than Victor Paul Wierwille's; ... but that didn't make Jesus discard him, did it? Why didn't Jesus and God simply move onto someone else? Look, surely they could have found someone to communicate truth who wasn't a murderer? Think of all the families that Saul destroyed. Wasn't God and Jesus big enough to have found someone else? Folks, the simple fact is, God worked through and with Victor Paul Wierwille to communicate biblical truths, sins and all, and many folks got blessed because of God allowing this to occur. Those who try to spin it otherwise, well go right ahead, but you aren't fooling me.

No real argument here. For instance, in an example about SIT, if one dislikes VP so much that they can't trust his books anymore, one may get the truth about SIT from The Gift of the Holy Spirit by J.E. Stiles. He led thousands into speaking in tongues. I just don't see the point of tossing out RHST, when it communicates the same basic ideas and truths from J.E. Stiles book.

Personally, I think we'll have a rotating job schedule. After all, we have all of eternity. I'd be willing to clean toilets for a few hundred years under those circumstances, wouldn't you?