oldiesman

I really wouldn't know. VP said we should master PFAL, and so I suppose VP should also have told us exactly what that meant, how to do it, and at what point the mastery was accomplished? I thought that perhaps God told YOU this Mike...that was one reason why I asked.

Good point Mike. Same goes for King Solomon. It appears hard for some folks to believe that God can communicate his Word to folks who at times can be so idolatrously sinful and harmful to others.

And don't forget King Solomon...

More plagiarism comments: My response: VP did credit the sources for his information, verbally.If he was trying to hide his sources, why say anything about them, at all? BUT, here's a quote from The Way Living in Love, 1972, long before his alleged plagiarism was ever exposed: Here VP, in 1972, says directly that lots of the stuff is NOT ORIGINAL!Golly, I'm trying to believe that VP plagiarized some, but when I see the dictionary definitions and compare them with the facts of VP's alleged plagiarism, I get all confused. The profit went way way beyond only personal, for him only. Even financially, the financial "profit" went to twi, not his own personal bank account.

Mike, Because if it is available for me to master PFAL, I want to know exactly when I have attained that mastery. Saying that we should master PFAL, but not being able to tell when we have actually attained that mastery, is like Chris Geer saying we need to "get back on the Word." Too aloof. Here's an athletic example: If I were to study Karate, I become a "Master" when I attain the 4th degree Black Belt. At that level, I am qualified to teach it. I am considered a Master at Karate. When does one become a Master at PFAL?

Skyrider, My dismissal had to do with me breaking one of the ten commandments (I'm not gonna say which one :D ) while at the same time being very young (19 yrs old), which was supposed worked against my ( at that time ) present involvement in the Corps. I was invited back, when I "got it together". This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which is Craig ranting, yelling, or the so-called manipulation/intimidation you speak of. I do not believe I was manipulated or intimidated in any way. I considered most of those rants a challenge to "get busy" as Craig would put it.

Mike, if what you say is true, that folks need to master PFAL: how does one go about mastering it, and how does one KNOW they have actually done it?

I think our definitions of plagiarism vary, but I do think he plagiarized some.Some believe (I believe erroneously) that plagiarism is not noting or citing in writing, where someone got every single specific thought, idea or concept. Others believe it is a word for word extraction of specific written text, without giving proper written acknowledgement where the word for word extraction came from. I believe the latter is correct. If you believe as I do, then VP did plagiarize some paragraphs. WHY he didn't simply cite those few paragraphs he plagiarized, I don't know.

Thanks Krys, but I still don't think some folks get what I'm saying. Reminds me of when VP said something about "you can't stop people from kicking you, but you determine which direction you will go". Taken as a challenge, some of these rants by Craig can possibly benefit the corps volunteer ... toughen them up. And speaking from a "spiritual sponsor" point of view, I wouldn't want to be contributing to a weak corps volunteer who may easily get talked out of their commitment by an earthly family member ... that'd be a waste of time and money. So maybe Craig wasn't so wrong after all.

No question about it, I think they were there to sign up as many folks for PFAL as possible, and they knew it. Just the same as the purpose of the WOW program, to sign up as many folks to PFAL as possible. Was that manipulation? as in "unbeknownst to them"..? How can it be, when you know exactly what you are there for? We all knew why we were in the various programs we were in and what the purposes were. Fast forward 30 years later... NOW, some think we were manipulated, because now, PFAL stinks, to some. But back then, PFAL was the accuracy of God's Word and we wanted to share it with anybody and everybody who would listen, because we literally believed that God wanted everyone to hear it. And so I think, it isn't the recruitment tools that are REALLY the issue, it is whether or not PFAL was promoting the rightly divided Word of God. If it was, damn straight I'm going to try to sign up as many folks as possible!

Diazbro Have a great weekend. And Have one on me:

I have a friend who loves alcohol and he tells me that Drambuie takes good. I gotta try it. :P

Just look at the context and environment. You were in a serious training program. Designed to weed out the unsure feeble minded.

I think it was meant to toughen you up. It's the stones in the brook that make it sing. Iron sharpenth iron. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.. :) Dealing with manipulation, builds character. :) :)

Everything you mentioned on your first post. Those things are pretty easy to understand. You know twi was tough and serious...and, the corps was a training program. What did you expect?

It certainly wasn't there in the RC church when I needed it over 30 years ago, that's for sure.

And yet, I understand everything VP and Craig was trying to convey to the trainees. Be tough. Don't let the adversary talk you out of your commitment. Your first commitment is to God, not your family. etc.

It all depends on the commitment and mind-set of the believer who is selling the house, whether it is a right thing or a wrong thing. Here's what twi might say to those who made a commitment with them: Bear in mind that making commitments to God, whether with twi or not, may include these things.

Diazbro, Is the following excerpt from PFAL, right on? Victor Paul Wierwille PFAL Part IV -- The New Birth Chapter 19 -- Born Again of Incorruptible Seed Pgs. 295-98

I think that's fine, as long as what God shows via The Comforter doesn't contradict the written revelation of the holy spirit, the Comforter, that has already been revealed. That was the beauty of much of PFAL... Much of PFAL contains established truths already revealed from The Comforter, because it contains established truths from the God Breathed Word first revealed to the holy men of God of the First Century, which truths are still being taught by men today. P.S.: Where Mike and I part company: Mike believes that all of PFAL is perfect..., God-Breathed. Whereas I believe there is room for error. So who's correct? I think it all goes back to the rightly-divided Word. When and where it is rightly divided..it is truth. When and where it is wrongly divided, it is error.

Here are a few more views that Christmas is pagan in origin: Origin of Christmas Origin of Christmas Real Story of Christmas Surprising Origin of Christmas About Christmas Christmas is Spiritual Adultery Christmas Customs-Are they Christian? Merry Christmas

Just because VP learned from many other men, doesn't guarantee one way or the other that what he learned and taught was true or false. What he taught (PFAL) should stand on its own and be believed or rejected on its own. Once again, I think you (and others) are allowing the sins of Wierwille to determine whether what he taught is true or false. I think his shortcomings are irrelevant to this discussion.

What you suggest is that we should learn only from God and Jesus, directly. Believing it in your heart, is what is most important.

Bliss, among other things said about Jesus in PFAL, is that Jesus is PERFECT. I think there is hardly any greater esteem we humans may give someone. I happen to like Belle. I just don't agree with everything she believes. I hope she takes me off ignore, because I think she should read what I write. She will learn, regardless of what I write/believe is right or wrong. I learn from her.

:lol: :lol: