oldiesman

WOW that's an excellent point doojable, and thanks for your support. I also would add that an apple tree is an apple tree and not bear fruit, when it is not time to bear fruit, or not fruit season. Rascal I had no idea that you were into motorcycles. I love this one:

What is the ministry? Isn't it the people that associates with it? Like the word church...the church is the called out...the assembly of people. So saying there is no fruit in "the ministry" under that definition must mean that all the people involved with it bear no fruit of the spirit. Do you really believe that?

Rascal I have a few questions. Have you considered the following verse recently: When we consider this verse, then folks who manifested the acts of the sinful nature, who also confess their sins to God, are forgiven. Or do you suppose that having these acts of the sinful nature on one's record is enough to condemn them forever? *************************** What is a counterfeit Christian? You either have Christ in you, or you do not. Are you referring to a carnal Christian? *************************** By the way, please take a good look at that list of the acts of the sinful nature, in Galatians. Ever guilty of any of them yourself? I am... I believe none of us are so pure that we can do without our Saviour...

Well I would say they teach their version of the bible. The Catholic Church has traditionally held that salvation can be attained, maybe, only through observance of their sacraments. Maybe. Therefore, they have set themselves apart as the only true church... TWI taught simply that salvation comes though belief in Jesus Christ, a la Romans 10:9. So then which concept is more biblical, or closer to the truth?

I think all of us, if we are honest, have some of these things on our record. If you don't, praise God. The question is, do we live like this? When these acts of the sinful nature manifest themselves, do we ask God to forgive us? If mankind was perfect, mankind wouldn't need a Savior to save us from our sinful natures. That includes you me VP LCM and everyone else. We all have sinful natures. God saw that, that we mankind needed help that is why his Son paid the price...

Oakspear, are you really into Wiccanism or was that a joke?

You must be God, who knows and sees all things.Golly, I didn't think God was posting with us. :P I didn't know there was FRUIT of the flesh, I thought there were WORKS of the flesh. Yeah they committed adultery, a work of the flesh. But to say that they failed to have any fruit of the spirit, is something I did not know. Thanks God. :D

So then lemme get this straight. Are you saying that Dr. Wierwille taught the Corps that it was wrong for a man to touch a woman other than his wife? Geeze what hypocrisy, ya think?

Now you are accusing twi leaders and ministry of not having/manifesting the fruit of the spirit?

Johniam, No big deal to me either. I suppose the Apostle Paul also could be considered our father in the Word, since the greatness of the revelation we believe in and understand, came from him.

Preach the Word, teach the Word, pray, believe, be thankful to the one true God... Depends on what scriptures you are talking about. When one trusts God and Jesus, one doesn't need to trust in fruit, or labels.

Morgan, consider this: "Sunesis" October 15, 2005 Greasespot Cafe

Check out their website: CFCOFTEXAS

Time to take a break

The same verses I quoted above apply to you, me, twi, and anyone else. When someone fails to do the Word, they fail, be it you, me, twi, or anyone else. Feel free to post what you think applies to VP Wierwille, and I will read it. Can't promise you I will agree with any or all of your viewpoints though. My behavior doesn't always live up to the mark, for sure. But you know full well that whether one is a Christian or not, is not based upon one's behavior. Christianity is all about what God wrought in Christ Jesus. Christianity is Christ dying on the cross for your sins and mine, and folks who believe in that perfect sacrifice, confessing Christ as Lord and believing that God raised him from the dead. Christianity is about God and Christ and their good works...not humans' works. It is loathesome and pathetic when one of us accuses another brother or sister in Christ of not being a Christian, because of varying viewpoints, or lack of "good works". We know better than that, because of God's grace and Christ's perfect sacrifice. "It's not by works of righteousness, but by His grace alone".

Diazbro says: The Word of God says: Who Is Telling The Truth?

Veneration

Diazbro says: The Word of God says: The Choice Is Yours ...

Sometimes leaders' behaviors reflected the inner spirit...sometimes the behaviors didn't. At the times the behaviors were not reflecting the inner holy spirit, does it mean that the spirit was absent?

Ceasing carnal behaviors doesn't necessarily mean man gets born again, or saved. The way one gets saved, born again, is to believe what the Word says: Romans 10:9 John 3:16 Acts 4:12

My definition of a "genuine Christian" is one who has "Christ in them the Hope of Glory". Doing what?

Because today is "man's day" when man does the judging. We have freedom of will to think the way we want to think, Godly thoughts or ungodly thoughts. We can be spiritually born again, but the gift of God does not guarantee that we will "walk worthy of the vocation". Salvation is for sinners. Everyone's poo poo stinks.

The easiest way I know "how to" forgive people who have hurt and wronged you, is to bear in mind "what God forgave *you* for."

Plagiarism itself has a stigma attached to it of the plagiarist intentionally being deceptive. This is what I am questioning: the intent and motive to deceive. If VP Wierwille was intentionally deceptive, wanting to deceive us into believing that his teachings were all original, why would he say, in 1972, "lots of the stuff I teach is not original"? Doesn't sound to me like it was his intent to deceive, when you consider other important evidence.

But he did confess. He said "lots of the stuff I teach is not original".