oldiesman

Ummm, speaking of broken records? .... Jkboehme, Why not put every response of yours on ALL of the threads, that way you will be assured everyone will see each one, no matter what thread someone might stray in at a particular moment. :)

Apples and oranges. Even though the Davidians thought they were doing God's Will, whether they were or weren't, they still didn't violate any laws. In contrast, murdering babies (mayans) and humans (al Kaida) are violations of law. Why aren't you concerned about the Davidian female teenagers being MURDERED by the FBI? All you seem to care about is Koresh having sex with them. :blink:

Yeah, but I'm really only just one of many variable tunes here at the Spot ... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Mo, the purpose of the ATF seige was publicity; had nothing to do with sexual acts. Branch Davidians were also gun dealers... and that time, and in the Clinton Administration, the ATF was very anti-gun, and they wanted some major anti-gun publicity. If you viewed the film, you would know all this. This wasn't sicko logic to the Davidians. That's a major reason why it wasn't a crime .... there was no criminal "intent". In contrast, there was criminal intent on the part of the FBI murderers.

Penguin, What you describe may not be much different than Roman Catholics, and other religions. And so I prefer to let folks decide for themselves what religion they wish to participate in, without condemnation. I prefer not to paint most in twi with a broad brush, that they are unhappy, paralyzed, full of fear, want to get out, can't get out, yada yada yada... Don't you realize this is insulting to people? Let folks choose what church they want, and then let them live with the blessings/consequences of their own choosing. ;)

Here's a site that says parental consent for marriage in Texas is 14 for male, 13 for female: Texas Parental Consent Even so, back in 1993, it was no crime. They interviewed the sheriff of that county, have him on tape, saying they committed no crime. If you had watched the film, you would know this. No, it wasn't. And kindly watch the namecalling.

This wasn't statutory rape, bigamy, or betrayal of authority. This was a group of people who carried out their religious beliefs, openly, who violated no laws. By the way, the FBI seige had nothing to do with the Branch Davidian sexual beliefs. That was used later (their sexual beliefs) to create sympathy for the FBI murderers. Just like folks seem to be using the Branch Davidian sexual beliefs now as rationale to justify murder. "no big deal"...they were nuts anyway. In the state of Texas men/women may get married at the age of 14, with parental consent. Is the state of Texas all a bunch of statutory rapists in to allow that? How dare they?

Belle, the context is Lamsa... Relax. :D

Jkboehme, If all your theories about twi paganism, trances and brainwashing were true, it would be impossible for folks to "eat the fish, and spit out the bones" like so many have done. You seem to leave no room for the possibility that twi taught godly truths that one may enjoy and build on, without being held captive to the twi organization. I don't even buy your theory that folks are entrapped there, even today. Folks have free will. You insult people.

Right, but he never said or wrote that all his ideas were his own. "Putting it together" so that it fit, he said, was the original work. Yeah, he learned from Lamsa. Have anything that was lifted word for word? That is what we have agreed plagiarism really is... using someone else's writings and copying them word for word, without giving proper written acknowledgement.

Jkboehme, What words/sentences did VP plagiarize from Lamsa?

For the Branch Davidians it was, this was their religious belief.Doesn't make them "dangerous" and doesn't call for them to get killed. And it wasn't "all the women in the kingdom", it was a selected number from the bible that they believed were going to be elders, after the seven seals came to pass. There was no pressure. This is what they all believed was God's Will for their lives. You might want to watch the film and see for yourself what really happened.

Jkboehme, Your concerns do not lie in twi doctrine, yet you attack it as repackaged paganism? Whatever. Thanks for your deep insight on what true Christianity is.

Yes, this was covered in "Waco Rules of Engagement". Have you seen the film? The sheriff of the county where all this happened was interviewed and spoke about everything at Mt. Carmel. Marriage is legal at the age of 14 in Texas. (or it was legal at that time...) Also, consider biblical culture when they got married. very young. There's no doubt their beliefs were different and strange to our culture. But they believed that Koresh was what the bible referred to as the "sinning messiah". Not Christ, but a Christ-like figure who would procreate elders who would be leaders in the millenium. That was the spirit in which these sexual encounters happened... for procreation. Everyone in their group knew about it and approved. This is vastly different from say, VP drugging someone and appropriating himself privately. There is no comparison. The Branch Davidians was an offshoot of the Seven Day Adventist church. They believed Koresh was teaching accurately about the seven seals. Wierd as all this sounds, folks have a right to their own religious beliefs in this country. Doesn't make them dangerous -- that was part of the smear campaign to downplay the government's atrocious actions regarding this matter. Our own government, when it usurps our constitutional liberties, *is dangerous*. A person who supposedly knows so much about "the counterfeit" and has so much concern and zeal to explain it, ought to at least have as much concern and zeal to expound about "the genuine". We may actually learn something of value. It's so easy to tear down. You are very good at that too, Wordwolf.

Jkboehme, I read your stuff closely and haven't gotten an answer from you. If PFAL and other classes and teachings taught in twi were basically nothing more than repackaged paganism, please reveal what are the true doctrines of Christianity?

Jkboehme, How do you know what is on/in another man's conscience?

Jkboehme, So then PFAL and other classes and teachings taught in twi were basically nothing more than repackaged paganism? Ok, please reveal what are the true doctrines of Christianity?

Jkboehme, So then PFAL and other classes and teachings taught in twi were basically nothing more than repackaged paganism? Ok, please reveal what are the true doctrines of Christianity?

It would be incorrect to assume that just because I may not comment on someone elses opinions means I am in agreement with them. Nice try though. :D

When one looks at all the facts, I don't see how anyone can seriously blame Koresh for what happened. He gets it though. Classic case of one entity doing evil deeds, yet blames someone else. This whole thing could have been avoided had forces and entities in our own government not been "agenda driven". A little more respect for our constitutional liberties would have been nice, as well... But I agree with you that our government contains sociopaths..obviously. I went to view the film again last night and record it on a DVD, but my VCR broke down on me....now I have an excuse to buy a new one. :P

Jkboehme, So then PFAL and other classes and teachings taught in twi were basically nothing more than repackaged paganism? Ok, please reveal what are the true doctrines of Christianity?

Mo, there wasn't any evidence that Koresh was "dangerous" or a leader of a "Dangerous Cult". Did you happen to view the film "Waco, The Rules of Engagement"? These folks were murdered by the FBI. The government had plenty of time to pick Koresh up weeks before the murders, if he was so "dangerous".

Belle, how can you be so sure?

Here's more information about government coverup of Oklahoma: Terror, Lies & Memos

And so VP's true aim and intent were to permanently destroy folks' ability to know, trust and love God?