oldiesman

Oh yeah sure.I can just see myself out WOW, mowing somebody's lawn for free who doesn't give a rats a** about God, the bible, or you. This reminds me of an incident out WOW. ha! I was in the cafeteria of a college campus in Little Rock AR. My WOW sister challenged me to walk up to and invite myself to sit down with and witness to one of the Professors, who was sitting there eating his lunch. I asked if I may have a moment of his time to talk about God and the bible? After sharing about two sentences worth, he said "your moment is up" and asked me to no longer take up his time and remove my rear end from his table. I remembered this man. A few months later, coincidentially, our branch was doing a Saturday Car Wash. We all participated, and any donations would be appreciated. The washes were free for anyone who had the balls to not make a donation. :D--> Anyway, guess who shows up? Mr. Nasty. I dropped my sponge and bucket and stared at the guy, now all smiles cause he was getting a free car wash. Smiley smirky face. I wanted so much to ask everyone, out of respect for me, to drop their sponges, but what the heck. So if a person doesn't have the courtesy to spend 5 minutes listening to what I have to say about God and the bible, you really think it's God's will that he gets a free car wash or a free manicured lawn? No wonder why they say Christians are idiots. Just smack the other side of my face while your at it too.

Gee they must have a lot of time on their hands. :D-->

Never saw it.Bet it would fetch a nice dollar on ebay. :D-->

But it does say a workman is worthy of his reward.I forget what verse but I think it's in more than one place. VP and others spent lots of wood and time working on the class, so it should come as no surprise that there would be a one time nominal fee.

Bliss, look at it this way.PFAL was a bargain... For example, if you took PFAL 10 times, that's $10 a class. I do believe that $100 was plenty, even though I think it was worth much much more.

Cool, did God say he would teach him the word Himself, with no other human contact? I trow not. :D--> I also believe VP had holy spirit, which made it possible for God to work with him to move the Word he learned from others, along with his own private study and reasoning ability. I also believe God was working in VP to establish certain truths he then taught others, just like he works with us to establish certain truths we can teach others.

Actually Wordwolf, I was beginning to have some sort of fixation on your concept of plagiarism (or your understanding of it) as you purport that most, or the vast majority of VP's writings were plagiarized, because he STOLE all his ideas from others.He didn't just believe what he heard/read and teach it;... no, he STOLE these ideas. Because he didn't leave footnotes where he initially learned the information or where he read it from another source. Then Raf (and Oakspear) comes along and puts a fly in your ointment. They disagree that VP stole the 7 administrations teaching. Yet you say he stole it. Come on, either he stole it or he didn't. So what I see here is what you call VP stealing, others call believing and teaching. And so I just wonder how much more information you say VP stole, that he really didn't STEAL, if it's nothing more than him believing a concept and teaching it without giving written acknowledgement to who else wrote it before he did.

I look at the complete opposite.Look at how great loving and merciful God is, to entrust his Word with someone as fallable as VP. Additionally Saul was a raving murderer...can't get much worse than that...

If Cliffe is the guy who authored the LAW of prosperity, I may have a bone to pick with him. :D--> ptoewee

I just ordered "Let Go and Let God". Thanks Bob. :)-->

I don't think VP ever said that he came up with the idea independently.He said numerous times (and wrote) that he learned from various men of God, scattered across the continent. As far as him saying that God would teach him the Word as it hadn't been known since the first century if he would teach others: God teaching him the Word doesn't have to be direct revelation without human contact. His statement could also mean that God taught him the Word, thru men of God, scattered across the continent, along with his own study and reasoning ability.

Interesting! Raf, this is what I thought about most of VP's writings, he adopted the belief of those who he learned from.But then there are those who advance the theory that if one writes about the same ideas as the one one learns from, but not giving the proper written acknowledgement along with it, it's called plagiarism. So would it be fair for me to believe that actual plagiarism is a word for word lifting, rather than the written acknowledgement or adaptation of beliefs? Do you concur?

Not enough to condemn VP now you are condemning the folks he learned from as "fringe". ha ha ha ha haB.G. Leonard, E.W. Kenyon, Stiles, Bullinger, Pillai, Martin Luther, etc. those are the biggies, yes they are all glassy eyed cultists on the fringe. Me too.:D-->

Buy this bike. It's a dandy. 60 miles per gallon.

Sounds like a wonderful program for wound addicts.

Didn't know he even had one, cool. Liberty can erode under perilous times unless we fight to protect it. Did you hear about the gun confiscations happening right now in Louisiana? Check this out: Gun Confiscations in New Orleans

Can We Worship Jesus Christ?

You mean the wrong teaching on tithing? Doesn't bother me in the least. I tried it. It didn't work for me. So I stopped doing it. No harm done. Ok so maybe I lost a few bucks. Hundreds. Maybe even thousands. Truth is, I probably would have wasted the bucks somewhere else. I've had my ups and downs in twi. It wasn't a cake walk all the time, anyone who was around for any length of time knows this. Lost 2 good friends who died, one got hit by a truck, another shot himself in the head. I think these were two guys who would have wanted me to eat the fish and spit out the bones, as I remember them.

I think there is definitely such a thing as wound addiction; problem is, folks who are the most addicted to wounds, who love to ongoingly revisit and regurgitate the pain and sufferings over and over again like an endless leaky faucet, who relish and seem to even worship their endless whining, seem to be the hardest to convince that there is a life outside of wounds. If momentus helps people get over it and move on, more power to momentus. Some people may really need it!

As far as worshipping Jesus is where we possibly missed the mark. I'm still getting used to the idea that it's ok to worship Jesus. After many years of waythink, this is a breakthrough.Wouldn't have hurt to explore that doctrine in greater detail, but perhaps it was necessary for things to go down the way they did, for us to fully understand God's unparalled, exhaulted position. I am STILL very comfortable with that belief.

It's a lie. Unless you can state factually and specifically what "preferential treatment" I received. I will admit that having family in twi made the experience more pleasant. That is true. But special treatment? I do not recall any. Rascal, if you assume that I received answers to my letters only because I had family in twi, that's a stretch. Again, you are surmising evil things you have no knowledge about. You can talk authoritatively about your involvement, not mine.

Being able to participate in God's Kingdom then, now and in the future is what I think you are talking about.I look at my involvement in twi as a part of all that. Try to look at it that way and maybe you'll see where I'm coming from... Wasn't wasted time... Part of God's plan for my life... Take what you learned from the experience and move on... Eat the fish and spit out the bones...

Rascal you seem to know lots of things without really thoroughly checking with the source. You do a lot of surmising, evil surmising.You freely talk about the fruit of some others, yet you fail to examine your own rotten-to-the-core fruit. I do not deny your experience and you are free to share YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE. Please do.But you shouldn't speak as if you know everything about everyone else's experience. When you say "we" and "us", you speak for everyone. You do not.

dmiller, In the later years, when he had letter screeners, I also experienced not getting answers directly from VP when a couple of my letters were screened, and others responded. But dang it, if you have a burning question and want VP himself to answer it, and he didn't, then I surmise if you didn't get satisfaction, you'd get fed up and leave. Why some people are so miserable about some of these things now comes off as just sour putrid fruit, speaking of fruit in ones' life. BTW, I did eventually get my questions answered, even if it wasn't from VP. And some of the answers weren't to my satisfaction anyway. But thats ok because it was still my choice to stay even with those not-so-perfect conditions.