oldiesman

rev2 didn't believe that VP's books were God Breathed.

I agree with a lot of this.

Well I think most of us tried all we could. But twi's door was always open, both to come and go. But it's hard for some folks to see that, thinking of themselves as "victims" all the time. I think one of the misconceptions of "abuse" is that we "couldn't".

Sounds like PFAL. :o If this were true, we'd all still be there.

This is what is debatable.I believe and state that when he was taught the idea, or when he read about an idea, then believed it, thought it was true, and wrote about it in his own book, without making reference in the book where the idea came from, he wasn't stealing. You say it is stealing. Under that concept, you may as well say everything he ever wrote, is stealing. Because everything came from somewhere else. ****** When I first took PFAL at the one-week PFAL camp, I remember a roommate there showing me (to my then surprise) that Bullinger had 4 crosses in his bible, signifying the 4 crucified. My first thought was "gee, maybe there's really something to this stuff I'm learning, it's mapped out in that other book" My thoughts weren't "VP stole it from Bullinger." I was just happy to hear it, and that he taught it, if it was the truth.

That wouldn't be honest.I accept it is plagiarism when he copies word for word. I do not accept it is plagiarism when he teaches a concept that he had been taught from others, believes it himself, thinks its the truth, and then writes about that concept in one of his books. YOU on the other hand seem to think that every idea he got from everyone else he STOLE IT. He didn't just teach what he learned from others, no, he STOLE IT. So that's about the drift of where I'm coming from. I wonder how many other teachings he learned and taught, that you call STEALING, that really isn't. Do you really think that the majority of ex-way believers think like you do?I don't. I think only a very small minority, believe he STOLE these ideas and that's the spin we should put on it and that's the way we should think about it. It's certainly debatable. Oh btw, IF B.G. Leonard thought it was so very bad what VPW did, why didn't he sue? I don't know why, but I do know that when a person feels they are really ripped off, they sue... Vp's teaching was not a crime, far from it.

Goodness gracious. For future reference, when I use this: :lol: or something like it, it usually means its a joke, or something not to be taken literally. Krys I hope you took my comment in that light...

Would You Believe .... :lol:

Sounds like a bribe to me... :o :lol:

New place is great. Thanks guys. B)

In VP's case, he already admitted that he learned from men of God scattered across the continent.He made the point verbally numerous times, and in writing some, so it was no secret. He wasn't hiding anything by not giving proper written acknowledgment. If he wanted to hide the fact that he learned these things from other people, he wouldn't have repeated that he did learn from these people, naming them specifically, and he CERTAINLY wouldn't have had their books in the Way Bookstore for years. Although he didn't have any of B.G. Leonard's books in there... he had many others.

Hey that dude was right on! :lol:

Shaz,Those sentences that he really did plagiarize, are where he plagiarized. Yes, let's call it for what it is, where he did it. But saying he "stole" a teaching or a concept when he actually taught a concept that he believed from another source, like the 7 administrations teaching he supposedly "stole", is a false accusation, unethical, and unbecoming a Christian or anyone else. I wonder how many more of his teachings fall in this category and how many more false accusations are out there. And so I think for some people to be fully satisfied, he may well have had to footnote every paragraph he wrote, noting where he got this and that idea from. :wacko:

I agree.I think $200 was way too much and was unfair since folks also paid $40, $60, $100. I think $40.00 would have been enough for the materials and commitment end of the deal.

Oakspear that was a typo but when I read your response it had me spit coffee all over my shirt. :lol:

Mike is that a greater example of the original God-Breathed words of VP? :D I need to get one. :lol:

It is disturbing that you would think of anyone who committed themselves to WOW in that light...

Really Rascal? Well I'll be sonofagun.Were you at that event at Christ of the Ozarks? I still think of that and cringe when we did that skit on the honeymooners. I was so terrible. :(-->

Bliss, I really don't know what VP's motives were.I'd believe he wanted to move the Word and to that end he needed money to do it. But I'm not God, God is the searcher of hearts and looks on the heart and motives.

Hi Laleo,This is the way I see it. If people back then thought they were being stolen from and it was as big an issue for them as it is for you, they should have sued for damages. The fact that there were no lawsuits (or perhaps I should say, none that I know of) about VP so-called plagiarism and who supposed to get the money, says something to me. It says that these people who VP learned from didn't think it was as big a deal as you or others make of it in this day and time. I know that answer probably will not satisfy you, but heck, when you're mad, you put your money where your mouth is and take legal action and if it really was "stealing" then it should have been dealt with the authorities.

Friend Belle. Do you seriously believe that these fine gentlemen who knocked on your door jumping over themselves wanting to moe your lawn and manicure your property offered all that all because of the love of God and expect absolutely nothing in return?My goodness, even Jesus Himself expected some commitment from folks. You can't be this naive. You are smarter than this.

My cat is too smart to listen to this stuff. :D--> -->

Oh he was real real nice after he got his free car wash. :D-->

Yeah Long Gone maybe he should have split the money 20 different or so ways and distributed it to all the people of God he learned from. Instead he kept it all for himself, selfish man that he was. -->

Feb-July 1980.