oldiesman

I'd be more inclined to agree with it being a crime, for a late-term pregnancy where the "fetus" could live outside of the mother. Something like partial birth abortion, which I think should be banned. However, I do have a problem with charging a federal crime for the termination of "any stage of development" of the fetus. I think that's overboard.

Pat, I think the above statement gives you a good defense if Paul is willing to testify on your behalf.

Shaz, thanks for your response. From my source, I can relay that Wierwille Signature #1 and Wierwille Signature #2 are NOT the same person! Maybe one of them is the REAL Wierwille? P.S. Thanks for all responses from everyone...but only 27 poll participants so far, if you haven't voted yet please do...

Pat, please ask about the true relationship between Donna and Rosalie and why Donna gets to remain at hq. Is it just a good friendship, or something much deeper? Even if it were a friendship, why the royal treatment? As you know, this is quite important to lots of us cause of past TWI policy, that demands the spouse of disgraced or terminated Corps be sent away with the disgraced or terminated Corps.

Thursday, President Bush signed into law new protections for the unborn that, for the first time, make it a separate federal crime to harm a fetus during an assault on the mother. The legislation defines an "unborn child" as a child in utero "any stage of development." Clearly, this puts into law for the first time that a fetus is a living soul. Contrast with TWI's view that when the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, at that time, and not before, man became a living soul. Additionally, Dr. Wierwille expounds from the Old Testament Exodus 21:22-24 showing that the fetus wasn't considered a human being. Wierwille writes: Victor Paul Wierwille By The Way April 30, 1981 I tend to agree with Wierwille and think the Old Testament view is more reasonable. What do you think?

Hallelujah! After days of searching and digging, cutting through the piles of TWI-related papers, I found a copy of Craig's "companion" letter to his March, 1989 Loyalty Letter. This letter is dated April 14, 1989 and is addressed "Dear Staff Believer". It goes further why Craig made the decision. I sent a PDF to PAW and asked him to post it. Comments will follow...

This topic has been addressed before but I thought I'd bring it up again. I've been going thru some old TWI letters and papers, and guess what I found? Completed Blue Forms. Specifically, from the time I was a twig coordinator from 9-89 thru 9-90. Guess how much I myself contributed to hq during that stint? $4,857.43. Holy smokes. WOW! I didn't realize I was so generous! I figure over the years, I must have contributed to TWI-1 at least $20,000.00 or so. And that's not even accounting for my Way Corps sponsorship contributions! How about you? P.S. I realize now how much money they're losing by dissing all the old time Way believers!

Ok Dot, thanks. I think very few of them after 1982. From what Dot said, all of them could have been intercepted unless they were in a separate envelope. Coolwaters, I don't know what you mean.

During my stint in TWI-1, I've gathered quite a few letters, and some of those were from Dr. Wierwille. However, one particular letter is reason for this topic. It was 1983, and I wrote to Wierwille to notify him of something wrong happening and asked him for a response. I got a response, but it was wierd, kind of like it was somebody else responding. I checked the signature, and sure enough, the signature didn't match with previous responses I had received from Wierwille. So was this Dr. Wierwille responding in that 1983 or somebody else? How many signatures of Dr. Wierwille are there? I investigated this, and discovered that yes, that 1983 letter to Wierwille wasn't looked at by him, nor responded to by him, but one of his letter handlers. Do you know THE REAL signature of Dr. Wierwille? Take a look at the three I have provided; Are all of them phonies? Do you think one is real? Pick the one you think is THE REAL one, if it's there... The answer will be given in a few days. The Multiple Signatures of VPW

I've been reading some old TWI-1 letters and found a letter written to me on Way Stationery from Bo Reahard, who I believe at that time (1978) was the Trunk Coordinator. I asked what was the meaning of Galatians 6:10 and the word "all". Here is an excerpt of his response: And so what I've gleaned from Bos' response is, as long as we do good (God's will), it really doesn't matter "to whom". I think his response is reasonable and is another reason why TWI-1 was different from TWI 3,4. I don't think we'd get a response like that from TWI today.

It doesn't mean it was ok but neither does it negate his godly works. It's not good to claim Dr. Wierwille plagiarized most of his books without proof. For one, one looks biased and irresponsible for making such a claim if there's not enough proof. But I'm open to evidence if it's out there. Look at it this way: let's say I'm speaking with a pro-Wierwille ex-wayfer and I want to make the point that most of Dr. Wierwille's books are plagiarized. Chances are that person is going to disbelieve it, without proof. So the person asks "where's the proof". Well, currently I can prove that some paragraphs were plagiarized; not most of his books.

Pat, from the evidence I've seen, only a small portion of Dr. Wierwille's books were actually plagiarized. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'm open to revising my beliefs. P.S. I've already seen the evidence from Juedes...which seems to me is only a small portion of the totality of Wierwille's books...if you have more, please feel free to supply it.

NLBT, I started seriously questioning tithing around 9 years after I first took PFAL. Why did it take so long? The answer is simple, I think because I was blessed and happy with everything else, that it wasn't that big a deal. People hung around for 15, 20, 25 years knowing there were imperfections, but I think the godly elements and benefits outweighed the hassles. That's the best answer I come up with why folks didn't leave sooner or right away. Individual experiences may vary.

Pat, the main point you seem to be making is that because Dr. Wierwille plagiarized some material, the Way Ministry wasn't a legitimate Christian ministry but nothing more than a profit-making business. Evidence exists that it was both.

Watered Garden, you haven't answered the question. Do you now understand WHY you have it and WHAT you did? Do you see how you need to get your believing up? Just kidding. :)--> I have Type 2.

No thanks, I'd rather be a floater....

I just want to get my facts and opinions right. If they're saying that they're the "only household of God", that might suggest that they're saying other churches or Christians, aren't in the body of Christ. I don't think that's true, I think they readily acknowledge others in "the family"; perhaps I'm confusing "household" with "family". My bad.

If a styrofoam cup is one way God chose to bring the Water of Life to some folks, it's got merit, for sure.

They actually said that TWI was the only household of God? I'd be interested to see what they're teaching, cause I know of a person close to me who needs physical help, like being taken to twig because they have a physical handicap. So far, they've done squat for this person. This is an old-time, Way Corps grad, a person faithful to TWI for years and years and years. So much for the "household" taking care of each other.

Goey, WOW, thanks for saying some nice things about TWI. And I as well, most likely got saved as a result of folks in TWI. It's nice to hear we most likely shared that ultimate experience in TWI.

Yeah that was me. It was a letter of April or May or June of 1989. A companion to the March letter. I thought I made a copy of it years ago and had it somewhere but I don't know.

Hope, I don't quite get what you're saying. Didn't he send that letter out to all the Corps? I thought we agreed on that.

The godly teachings were available elsewhere, but not where I was at the time, in my location nor my heart and mind. TWI was there to meet that need, and met those needs. My mother was in TWI a year before I was, which had a big effect on my involvement. Would I have learned these things anyway? I can't answer that, I don't know. But the fact remains, I DID learned them in TWI. Also, I didn't think that the idea that salvation by grace, and speaking in tongues, along with SIT and prophecy in a fellowship, were all that rampant in the early seventies...and certainly not from the Roman Catholic church where I came from. I beg to differ. The benefits may not be materialistic or carnal, but they certainly are tangible. It improved my family life, since all of us were involved in TWI. We got along and were likeminded, whereas before we weren't. It developed more harmony in the home. Can't say too much about business life. With interpersonal relationships, on certain levels it helped, being able to separate truth from error, with my spiritual halitosis detector. As far as helping me in my old age, as I get old, its an enduring comfort to have important biblical truths and concepts to believe in, and know are true. That's the legacy TWI left me and thousands of others, despite all its faults and failures.

Coolwaters, I make my assessment that there are thousands of folks who don't post on the internet, who are appreciative of their involvement in TWI and what they learned and experienced. Just look at all the folks in CES, CFF, other groups, who acknowledge many TWI teachings and concepts. I personally know lots of folks who appreciate TWI and their experience, who never post. There are folks who are even still involved who've experienced benefits, even now. As far as the lasting benefits I received; learning about Jesus as my enduring Lord and Saviour; Christ in You, the Hope of Glory; salvation by grace; speaking in tongues; sonship rights; dead not alive now; Jesus is not God; believing the bible is a book that makes some sense; just to name a few.

Raf, the way I see it, the 1989 letter does give glory to God and ascribes motives that glorify God. Craig wanted to continue moving the Word, and What the Hay described this well in an earlier post. Here's a quote from the letter: Now if you think TWI was evil from the start, nothing but a stupid cult, I guess you think the above is stupid, ungodly and self-serving. It's your choice how to look at it.