oldiesman

Abigail, thanks so much for trying to encourage all posters to stay above the namecalling and labelling and adhere to a more excellent standard. I hope you don't go ... but understand if you finally decide to. Know that your heart and continued respectable posting is a great example and will be missed.

I just received the book but haven't read it yet, looking forward to it. The forward was written by Lorna Goldberg, M.S.W., L.C.S.W. She wrote among other things: What hypnotic state? This is a manifestion of holy spirit that we the believer operate, we are in full control of our mental faculties. Stop and start at will. No hypnotism involved. If she doesn't believe in it, fine. But to mischaracterize it with that bullsheet is annoying.

Go to www.greasespotcafe.com, you'll see the box "search amazon.com" in the bottom right corner, type "losing the way" in keywords box.

Done.

JAL has a right to his opinion with respect to some former twi participants engaging in internet defamation and disparaging comments about the past. You may disagree all you want, but I think using the word "disgruntled" is a harmless way to say it. What do you think disgruntled means? It's another way to say someone is unhappy, unsatisfied about their twi involvement. Well, I think that describes some folks' actions perfectly. (Not everyone at GS Cafe, but SOME.) If one plays in the arena, one ought to be prepared to take some criticism of one's behavior, don't you think that's fair? Now, if JAL were to come on the forums here and say it here, I think he might be in violation of the rules because we are asked not to make it personal with other posters here on the forums. But John didn't come here, someone brought John's letter to us.

If you are suggesting that "flogging" was an acceptable form of punishment sanctioned by the BOT, I have to disagree. I do remember a paper called "Children Fun or Frenzy", that was written proof that TWI sanctioned parental spanking and use of the spoon (again, with limits, not beating the crap out of a kid.) I'm going to respectfully withdraw from this thread now, I don't want to say or do anything to detract from cake's story. I will continue on the child abuse thread if necessary, although as I recall we "beat that horse" pretty good back then.

Not to detract from cake's personal testimony, but if memory serves there was a "child abuse" thread a long time ago that discussed spanking where various opinions about it was discussed. My opinion is that there's a right way and a wrong way, and sometimes folks in twi applied it the wrong way which time unfortunately cake was at the receiving end of an event like that.

Krysilis, Thanks for sharing, and many thumbs up for your son who did the right thing.

I have one cigar per day, no tobacco taste in my mouth lingers from day to day. No more phlegm in the morning. Its great. I am taking a blood test soon as gonna ask what the nicotine level is in my blood, and I will let you know. Cigar shops also are a great place for men to hang out and talk. Miami must be full of them.

Hi Raffy. My favorite cigar is Don Pepin Garcia Blue Label One of these a day, don't inhale, you can't go wrong. Not nearly as bad as smoking cigarettes and you still have the pleasure of smoking. Don Pepin Garcia lives in Miami: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepin_Garcia

Ok fine. If Pawtucket states in the forum rules that participants are not entitled to express their own opinions as it relates to or challenge a person giving her own testimony then I will abide by the rules.

Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and interpretations of events about Wierwille or anyone else based upon the facts presented, even if it may contradict the victims feelings thoughts and opinions. It appears all you want is group think. I'll just morph my thoughts and feelings into yours and everything will be ok.

I don't have a problem with that as long as it is understood by everyone that a response of this type is allowed and ok and not interpreted as an attack on anyone's character but simply a varying opinion. What's the sense of taking it to another place on the site if a contrary opinion about the meaning of an event is still regarded as "bad manners" "lack of empathy" and "inappropriate conduct" warranting suspension.

Well that's why I suggested a separate category for victims to tell their stories of abuse and not have any possible varying contradictions/disruptions/interpretations/debates/interrogations, etc. On a forum where all are welcome and debates are encouraged, I frankly don't see any other way around it. You also could have the reverse. You could have a category for "pro-wierwille/twi rebuttals". Would that work?

Exactly!! Couldn't have said it better myself.

Here's a current problem as I see it: What happens when someone shares a personal experience that VP had sex with them. Ok that is a fact and should be believed. Then someone else posts that vp is an s.o.b. a con artist and a rapist. Then I post "my opinion based on the facts of this experience is that a rape was not committed." I can see this scenario happening and if my rebuttal is interpreted as an attack on the credibility of the teller of the story, I think we have a problem because where did I break the rules? I see it as a respectful disagreement as to the interpretation or meaning of the story that may differ from someone elses. So that's why I think we need the rules clarified.

I disagree, I think the reason why we need rules or have the rules clarified is because of opinions that some conducts and behaviors are abusive. Speaking for myself, I don't believe my conduct or behavior is abusive according to the current rules. You are of course entitled to disagree, which is why I believe we need the rules clarified/updated so everyone knows what is allowed and what to expect.

I would vote for a separate category altogether titled "Victims Personal Experiences" wherein rules of that category would be very strict and in complete favor of the victim. No doubting, dissent, questioning, debating, interrogation allowed. etc.

Of course not. Starting another thread is not the problem, but what if I started another thread sharing my opinion about a victims' story and then the Owner of the website doesn't like my opinion finding it opposed to the "GS Mission" and then I get slammed again? That's why your suggestion was a good one but IMO needs his blessing and must be made part of the rules, so all participants know what is allowed and what to expect.

Well, I vote your suggestion be made part of the rules; that way it gets the blessing of the Owner of the website, and all participants know what is allowed and what to expect.

That sounds fair..... I agree to comply fully if its made part of the rules.

The teller has a right to communicate their story; the listener has a right to have their own ideas about that story and interpret the meaning and conclusion of that story, not necessarily in harmony with the teller's conclusion. In an open forum such as this where ideas and debates are encouraged, the hearer then has the right to communicate that "varying conclusion". Communicating a different meaning or conclusion about an event is not an "attack"; it is simply exercising one's options.

I would add that John goes by his real name, has a real email address, and a real phone number that anyone who ponies up their real name may call to discuss their "beefs" with him directly.

Indeed, it would appear he was a great man who shunned finger-pointing victim mentality by accepting personal responsibility for the outcome of his destiny. A real winning attitude! "Find out just what the people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."

I love that paragraph...