oldiesman

The word is true even in your churches, denominations or so-called "cult environment". Just because we were with twi or in the corps doesn't negate the truth of the word or make our experience a hoax or a con. I'd say the same for folks in or out of church. All depends on the heart and mindset of the person making the commitment or performing the action. It's pretty simple. Consider these: Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Col 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

I agree with you WhiteDove. Additionally from the spiritual partner perspective, I always assumed that the sponsoring was for the volunteer to receive training to later work for the ministry in some advanced capacity, not go through the entire training and then simply do your own thing and head off on your own orbit.

Skyrider, I never suggested that everything Dr. Wierwille taught was correct and God breathed. All I'm continuing to say is that his sins don't make the teachings wrong. His good works don't make the teachings right. The teachings stand or fall on their own, irrespective of the actions of the teacher. We all should rightly divide the word of truth for ourselves to get the true word.

Cman, The doctrine will stand or fall on its own irrespective of the temper tantrums of the teacher. I've been saying that over and over again yet some still don't get it. Honestly I don't like to argue about doctrine, its not fun and don't like to go there that much ... I would say if your beliefs have drastically changed since twi, then I respectfully disagree and best we can do is try to accentuate and have agreement in what we do agree on, if anything.

The explosive temper tantrums and vicious criticisms of the teacher doesn't negate the truth in the teachings. :)

Whether or not the dude was a con-man is besides the point. One persons life isn't defined by the good or bad works of another persons life. On the negative side, I guess that'd be guilt by association. Its a smear tactic I don't agree with.

Do you believe that laying up riches in this world by way of a decent career is more valuable (or has any value at all) in the afterlife, or will lay up rewards at the bema? What's more valuable, a decent career, or spiritual rewards? I think its possible to have both going at the same time, it would depend on the mindset and commitment of the person making the decision. But at the same time, I believe that thinking that corps volunteers were somehow wasting their time or getting ripped off of having a decent career is off the mark spiritually. God keeps the score.

Of course not, what I said was what I said. I think it makes more sense than the mind control excuse.

Right Ham, It's not as warped as you might think, it certainly wasn't warped thinking then. I'm sure you remember that all twi actions were virtually based on twi psychology i.e., "move the Word", Move the word" i.e., it was much bigger than simply developing a career. *Anybody* can simply develop a career, but we were storing up treasures and rewards in all of eternity to be rewarded at the bema which is much bigger than establishing a career in this vapor of life on earth. But hey, if eternal life is a hoax, if rewards are a hoax, if Christianity itself is a hoax, you probably have a decent point ... why go through all that corps nonsense when you could have had a decent career.

Jeff, Rascal wasn't referring to my spiritual family and I wanted to fill you in on what this was about. But if you don't have PM or want it, that's your option. Getting back to the topic, I'm of the opinion that we folks in twi had free will to choose our destiny. There are some exceptions: mentally retarded, children, and drug victims. But I think joining the corps was a bit more complicated, because by making that commitment, one voluntarily chose to follow the wishes, orders, spiritual counsel, whatever you call it, of someone else. This continued as long as the volunteer allowed themselves to be under that yoke, in my opinion.

Jeff, please activate your PM. I tried but can't get through.

No , not ok. I never said or suggested i received preferential treatment or enjoyed any more idyllic conditions than anyone else. You have falsely surmised that. No proof, just assumption. I've previously asked you to provide proof of your assumption, but you have none. Even previously asked you to take this to PM so we can discuss this privately. But no, you continue to press and use the fact that one of my family members worked on staff as reason why I supposedly received some sort of privileged treatment. It's not true, and you have REPEATEDLY been asked not to mention anything about my family. You can keep trying, but I think its time you stop already. The moderators have been notified and I hope they take action. TheHighway, I just took almost two weeks off from posting and Rascal starts right in with getting personal. Why can't people just be able to give their opinions without all this other nonsense? This is not my fault.

Rascal, I disagree. My opinion is that we all, all of us had free will to choose. And I have reported your post to the moderators for mentioning my "family", again. You've been asked many times not to do it. Forum rules ask us not to get personal, and you've gotten personal again. That's all I'm gonna say, I hope the moderators take some action.

But you still had a choice to leave if you wanted. You obviously didn't see the corps as some others did... then at that point one still could have left the program and been Joe Believer at twig. Or, just go through the program if you still loved the ministry and decide later what you wanted to do with your life. Nobody held a gun to your head. If you decided to leave right then, it would have taken some brutal honesty to go to Craig and say "you know, when I signed up there was no intention to work for the ministry for the rest of my life, my intention was [fill in the blank]. But now you're telling me something different." I agree with the description of the Lifetime of Christian Service being how one lives and in what job one desires. Some folks saw it that way, some didn't. But the bottom line is we had free will to choose what we desired to do, persuasive people notwithstanding.

Please go ahead and alert the moderators. I'd really like to know whether they feel quoting a partial post from someone is dishonest as you suggest. I'll abide by whatever ruling they decide (if any).

What a disparaging thing to say about brothers in Christ. Heefner, Doop, Fugit et al. WERE serving God during their participation in twi.

Rascal, As far as I know, there is no forum rule prohibiting the quoting of postings or partial postings from one thread to the other if it relates in some way to a post. When one of your posts blames twi for something or a variety of things, quoting your other post "I don't blame twi for anything" is fair game and speaks for itself. If you want to play the victim card and call it "stalking", go ahead, but perhaps you should check with Paw first before making that assumption.

Skyrider, So then your point is, because Dr. Wierwille didn't include the specific details that were in Mrs. Wierwille's book with respect to the India trip, he allegedly was a narcissist?

No I don't view it that way. I view it as all part of the program to toughen you guys up. Instead of looking at it like a weakling getting victimized, take it as a challenge to do bigger and better things. That was the attitude of mine in the corps despite all the wacky stuff we did there too.

:o :D

Cman, Please feel free to PM me anytime to discuss those issues.

Good points Garth, thanks.