oldiesman

Actually, it did and it does. :) You are still basing your statement on the false premise that there was some "requirement" to make another vow once the first one was broken. DUH.

I get what you're saying What the Hey. Nobody's posts should be so fragile that they are above reasonable scrutiny and criticism.

I trow not. Once the vow was broken, there was no requirement to make another one. DUH. Sounds like you are making up your own rules and regs. :)

No I'm not. I believe your motives and desire was to be a blessing to God, serve God and keep your commitment. That is why I think you made the choices you made, and it follows along with your own testimony.

Well if you want to get technical, I didn't just leave, I was dismissed. There is a difference. I would have liked to stay longer and even asked Craig if I could stay longer the day that he dismissed me; but wasn't allowed to. But yes, I broke the vow, was forgiven and from that point forward attended an excellent twig fellowship. I do know others who had the same experence as me; i.e, leaving the corps, not going back, and later attending twig and prospering. This is a fact that the folks who left the corps were always welcome back (this was pre-POP, I can't speak authoritatively after 1991).

I know the reality of what was expected when one signed up for the corps, and the huge commitment one was making to God and twi. I think you do too, which was why you made the choices you made. That is my assessment, and you really haven't said anything about your experience that would change my mind.

Skyrider, If posting opinions on GS cafe is being a meddler and busybody, I think we all may be guilty. :) I was dismissed from the corps; at that point the vow was broken. I failed to live up to the standards that I vowed to. I saw that, asked God for forgiveness, and moved forward being "Joe Believer". I was forgiven by God, and by twi. But at that point my desire to go corps was diminished. That was ok, because there was never a requirement to go back in residence. I am dealing with facts and reality. Are you?

I don't know that I am "clobbering" anyone over the head. I am posting opinions and of course am open to better ways to do that without compromising content.

Then it must be established. :)

I am no expert but do believe they were trying desperately to help her keep her vow to God.

Nero, That's a good question, but first let me share a little short story. I was sitting in my apartment a number of years ago, and all at once it started to rain hard. I looked up and noticed that one of the windows was leaking water and getting the books wet that were on the ledge next to the window. I immediately called the landlord, and complained about the leak. He came over, and when he walked in, he looked at me like I was an idiot and said "why don't you move those books out of the way"? Now for an example, there's "Marsha". The following is a summary (if these facts are wrong, someone will chime in to correct): "Marsha" was invited to Wierwille's motor coach. She was given a drink, and fell asleep. She wakes up on the bed, and Wierwille says "I could have screwed you, but I didn't". She leaves the coach, and is furious. Next day, SHE CHOOSES TO GO BACK TO WIERWILLE'S COACH!! At that point, Wierwille had sex with her. And so according to these facts, I believe "Marsha" is partly responsible for getting abused. She went back to Wierwille AFTER she was drugged. How could anyone call this encounter "rape"? There is an old Chinese proverb: "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". Marsha gets fooled, yet goes back later and has sex with Wierwille. Nero, if you don't understand this point, I will give you another.

LKH, I don't know that this is supposed to be a "safe" forum to help women. My understanding is that posters may express opinions of all kinds, no holds barred, as long as done with due respect. Sometimes these opinions can be very controversial and extremely emotional. But I maintain that we all are better off getting everyone's opinion out there on the table rather than dealing with some form of censorship. This is why I think the GS forums are such a great place to be. :)

No it wasn't. God does require us to keep our vows. (Numbers 30:2) I think you believed that too, which was why I believe you chose the abortion. You made a commitment to the corps, and wanted to honor that commitment, and the corps leadership helped talk you into keeping that commitment.

Lifted Up, I get what you're saying! If the anti-Wierwille/twi posters would render the same judgment and condemnation they do to others and other groups, as they do with Wierwille and twi, they'd be way too busy all day long finding fault with half the world! They'd likely go crazy. But their contempt against twi is justified since they are exposing the evil there. One has only so much hours in the day. :) Thanks for your input.

Welcome LKH, No not at all, I'm not saying it was all the woman's fault. I'm saying that the women are partly responsible, depending on the facts of the situation. No, the leadership is not without any blame.

Actually no. I believe what I'm doing is rendering opinions. No more, no less.

Rascal, my family has nothing to do with this and, I was not treated anymore special than anyone else. In fact, my letter writing to hq questioning decisions made got me a reputation of being somewhat of a pain in the foot. I didn't dismiss evil that I saw, and actually confronted what I knew wasn't right. I have letters to prove it. Treated special? I was thrown out of the corps when I screwed up. I could blame others for this, and did for a while, but finally came to the realization that it was all my fault. It was. I was to blame. If you would stop blaming others for actions and decisions you made, maybe you'll be free to release the hurt and bitterness in your heart.

I mean , what do you expect? These were very serious people. Did you expect them to just allow you to leave, to hell with you, after you had made the commitment for the Corps? I don't think they could have just left you the hell alone and be right with God. That would have been absurd.

But had you not gotten pregnant in the first place, the twi machine wouldn't have had to get involved to try to convince you that keeping your vow was paramount according to scripture. I see them as trying to do everything possible to help convince you to keep your commitment. From their perspective, they were "doing the word" ... (Numbers 30:2)

Women could have went home if they desired to have the child. Don't you get tired of blaming others? Women who want to have children have them.

Yep, I think that is insanity. I thought they ended up dead "at the hands of VP". now you're saying "at the hands of the coordinator". Doesn't matter, as long as you blame someone else! Insanity. Yes it is.

Nero you are always free to PM me and we can communicate privately, if you like.

No, Victor Paul Wierwille had nothing to do with that death. He doesn't control the spirit of suicide, and I'm sure had he been around to help this man, he would have tried to help him. I think its insane to keep blaming Wierwille for the actions of others. I think the vast majority of the women who had abortions do accept responsibility for their actions and decisions. It's only a few posters who keep on beating the drum that these women were victims of Wierwille.

He bailed out the corps participants who got pregnant. I think he did a good thing. Do you think it would have been better had he dismissed the women from the Corps altogether? Then he'd be blamed for that too! Hey it's all his fault. He shouldn't have been born.

I think its a weak argument. Its like saying Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson have blood on their hands for gun deaths. Its like saying Lee Iacocca has blood on his hands for automobile deaths. etc.