oldiesman

Well whoever they are, I pray the FBI doesn't murder them, like they did the Branch Davidians.

Yes. He died for my sins before I asked ... I'd say that qualifies. Had he lived by the approach you are arguing, he'd have waited for others to come to him, before taking action.

Way way overstated, melodramatic, and ridiculous. I would agree with you, to a point. We were free to hold any biblical beliefs we wanted, just not teach them as truth, if they differed from established twi teaching.Yes I suppose that sounds culty, but ask yourself whether you are allowed to teach whatever you think is truth in other religious bodies? Try teaching what you think is truth in the RC Church, Jehovahs Witnesses, Jewish Churches, Muslim Churches, just to name a few. Finally, if ya didn't agree with twi teachings, why hang around? Others who didn't agree departed freely. Same as above... but in any case, it was our choice what to believe, and he told us to research the scriptures ourselves and make it our own; and we assumed that if folks hung around, they agreed with what VP taught. Other than those who were narcotized, folks had the freedom of choice to say "no" to whatever. I don't agree with you on this, Oakspear. I think once someone volunteers information, the "toothpaste is out of the tube" and it is fair game. Put another way, it isn't fair or reasonable that you post information, then expect folks to be silent about it, when it is a perfectly legitimate arguing point in this discussion. I would ask you to remove the information, if you don't want it discussed. Agreed!

Well yes I think it would be appropriate for Lcm to make a public apology for all the lives he hurt; but in the meantime, I've forgiven him, and moved on with my life. I forgave him for dismissing me from the corps, even though I know others who committed equal or more horrible acts were allowed to stay and treated fairer than me. But the guy is human, he made lots of errors and mistakes, and God knows I've made my share. God made it simple: even as Christ forgave me, so I do Lcm.

Golly, even Ward Cleaver can see that.

Not quite Mark. We were taught in twi that the penalty we paid was loss of rewards. That explanation may have its flaws, but it makes a heck of a lot more sense to me than being cut off forever. THAT, being CUT OFF FOREVER, would be unjust in my mind. Toiletbowl duty for a few hundred years might be better. Well, I don't know anyone in twi who blasphemed God's Holy Name. I don't know anyone who has committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I don't know anyone in twi ( and wouldn't know ) whether someone has never expressed remorse for their sins for that is an inside job. Do any among us know that Lcm & others weren't sorry and remorseful for their sins? One can't really know this, but I think it's more likely that Lcm and VP and the rest sincerely asked God for forgiveness, knowing about God's love mercy and forgiveness.

WhiteDove, welcome to my camp.

Oakspear, I don't see a difference between biblical/Christian likemindedness, and what we were likeminded on in twi. What we were likeminded on were biblical truths/concepts, and if a participant wasn't likeminded with other participants, why even be involved in the first place? Some of it was error, granted; but I don't see how that differs from biblical likemindedness. If it is different, could you cite some examples? If you want to make a distinction between Christian likemindedness and what we were likeminded on in twi, please be more specific. Apples and oranges Oakspear. Your volunteering and posting information about your wife, is totally different than private gossip being posted against someone's wishes. I assumed that the information you posted about your wife is ok to discuss, since you posted it ... but if not, perhaps you should remove it?

I don't say damn them, but neither do I view them as heroes.

I'd love to have it but there's no way I'm paying 10 grand.

A trial reveals all the facts under oath and allows the interested observer to have a knowledgable opinion, knowing all the testimony. That would have been much more substantial than internet hearsay.

I think this is inaccurate. Yes God asks us to confess our sin in order to be in fellowship with Him. But God may grant forgiveness of sin, and indeed has, whether or not people confess or ask, or do anything. We may do the same.

If the judge in the case thought that a legitimate rape had been committed, he could have easily notified the district attorney, and had LCM arrested. The judge didn't do that because the judge didn't believe a rape had been committed. That's one reason why I don't believe LCM committed a rape. From the facts I have of the circumstances, it sounds more like sexual harassment to me. I don't think so. The settlement means, from TWI's perspective, they settled because of what they were afraid of losing, not because they admit a crime had been committed. And as I said, had a legitimate crime been committed, something punishable by the authorities, the judge could have easily arranged an arrest. This kind of thing happens all the time, you know, settlements; which is why had the Allen's not taken the money, there would have been a trial where all facts would have been exposed, and all testimony under the scrutiny of cross-examination.

Golly, I have a feeling this thread is gonna be good.

Mo please bake me some homemade cookies. Take the weekend.

Ah .. don't we all ...

In my mind, *courage* would have been not taking the money, but instead having the trial, wherein all sides would have been subject to cross examination. I think that of twi as well. I agree. There are different applicable scriptures too.

And so what is bothering you White Dove? Just kidding.

What tens of thousands? Last time I looked, TWI was still in business. How many folks actually left because of the Allen's lawsuit? LCM, and a few others maybe. TWI is still there. Whether they deserved what they got, is debatable, but here's what happened: TWI gave, and they took. Did they donate their winnings to charity after all their legal fees were paid?

He did ... after he got his piece of the pie.

This sounds a bit overstated. What you describe didn't happen every time. When I had questions and/or problems with something that was being done that couldn't be handled on the twig level, or doctrinal problems, I wrote letters to hq, sometimes to VP, sometimes to Craig, sometimes to research dept., sometimes to the Trunk Coord. And at those times I got polite answers. I still have these letters in my files. The answers weren't always what I wanted to hear... but it was nothing like you described.

Easy for me to understand. Repentence is for the unsaved sinner. Forgiveness is for the saved sinner. Repentence is confessing the Savior: Romans 10:9, John 3:16, then God gives eternal life. Forgiveness is confessing sins after salvation: I John 1:9 He has given eternal life to us who believe. Some folks believe that God grants everyone eternal life, no matter whether one believes in Christ, or not. But I believe one must believe in Jesus, as the bible says. Automatic forgiveness? God asks us (saved sinners) to confess our sins, and he is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Thanks for the info. I just put this at the top of my netflix queue. From netflix:

I think God made it easier for us to understand, in Christ Jesus. Jesus came to, among other things, expose the works of the Devil. The Devil is the author of sickness pain death, and all manner of evil. That is not to say that man is not responsible for his actions ... But, when we understand and BELIEVE that there is a spiritual source of evil, I think it makes it easier to forgive ourselves and others. It works for me.

The stink of sewage? Is that what you think likemindedness is? Likemindedness is a biblical principle, to be strived for. In many scriptures, it may even be considered a commandment of the Lord. Golly, I wonder what your views are of the Third Heaven and Earth, and what it will be like? For instance, think your wifes Tarot Business will be allowed?