waysider

I'm not sure what you call them in U.K., but here in the States we call those kind of people *fair-weather friends*.

Maybe you can chalk it up to evolution. (or de-evolution, if you prefer) Like when you go to see one of those old musical groups from your past and discover there hasn't been an original member in the group for the last 2 decades. The name is the same and that's about it. Everything else has changed, and not always in a good way. The other side of the coin is that there are groups that have chucked the name but continue on with business as usual. S.O.W.E.R.S. comes to mind at the moment. And, who even knows how many other splinters are out there, waiting to garner your interest? What they lack, for the most part, is that central, driving personality that started it all. Groups that are built on the personality of an individual leader tend to be short lived. Unless, of course, they fit the profile I described, in which case you might ask if they genuinely exist beyond the brand name.

You can add boredom and attrition to the mix. I'm sure there must be plenty of others.

These two are my only options?

It seems so crazy now that it felt *normal* to us to distance ourselves from our friends and family. How absurd that must have looked from the outside looking in.

We like to think that, unlike other cult-like, personality-centric movements and organizations that have come along, somehow The Way was different, special in its own way. It wasn't. It met a fate that is typical for such activity. We like to think we were special and unique because we were a part of it. We weren't. While we may very well be special and/or unique as individuals, it's not because of Way involvement. We're just like the people that got sucked into Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses and so on. The main difference is that they haven't fallen apart yet. It's only a matter of time.

Yeah, it amazes me, too. Especially when I see them proclaiming the *greatness* of some particular thing or another, such as the law of believing, that has been debunked time and time and time again. As if proclaiming its greatness will somehow make it real. So, it appears that, while the organization itself went swiftly swirling down the crapper, the ideas and dogmas that drove it keep coming back like a bad penny on payday.

There were things I was told about or saw that I assumed were isolated incidents. Later, I discovered said activities were widespread. The sexual escapades are a common example. Another was the exploitation of others' resources, whether money, material goods, labor or special talents. My point here is that I did not realize these things were present throughout the *cough* ministry. I thought they existed only in the isolated observations I had made. Adding to the obscuring of facts was the idea you weren't supposed to talk about such matters with other believers. In fact, even voicing an acknowledgement signaled unrenewed mind on your own part for thinking evil of your brother or sister. So, a lot of misdeeds remained hidden. Is this related to what you mean or do you mean they do know but remain indifferent?

Fo' Shizzle!

No, I'm not a very good salesperson. But then, I'm not really selling anything so it doesn't matter. I'm not sure why you keep giving this reference to the original sin. That's not what session #7 is about. It may be mentioned in there but the essence of the session is that we are never to question what we believe to be the truth. (whatever that is) Instead, we're supposed to "STAND!" and not budge, no matter what. Bad things can happen if we don't. We could end up a grease spot by midnight. I assume you're very familiar with that expression, no? "So, if you suppose there is something new that I haven't already heard or considered, and can condense it to a hundred or so words or less, I'd be more than happy to read and consider it. But if you think I'm going to spend hours and hours looking down some rabbit hole looking for some, as of yet unknown or new (to me), thing." HERE is something to chew on for a while. It's definitely NOT 100 words or less. Well, I guess you could just take the session #7 route. "STAND!" on what you already think you know.....or give some careful consideration to other viewpoints. There are lots of other thought provoking discussions here on a variety of subjects. You'll never know that if you're focused on falling down rabbit holes.

You asked about session #7?

Well, if he does come back, I'm sure he'll have a PFAL book in his hand.

No, that's not it. What I'm referring to is the teaching on the 5 steps the serpent used to deceive Eve. She gave conscious thought to what he was presenting. We're not to be like Eve. We are to stand firmly on what we've been taught and never budge. Don't entertain thoughts that contradict Way theology. It led to the downfall of Eve and it will lead to yours too if you allow your mind to explore other possibilities. Get the picture?

I just come here for the refreshments. (Don't tell my twig leader.)

Summary of what was taught in session #7: Eve engaged in contemplative thought. Look what happened to her. You do want to meet a similar fate, do you?

Advise for coming to GSC: Forget what you learned in session#7. It's O.K. to consider other viewpoints.

It revolves around how you define charity. Personally, my definition of charity would not include taking a child who suffers from a learning disability into the woods and beating him with a 2x4. (Yes, that literally happened in The Way. The suggestion, not the follow through, thank goodness.) They have a strange way of defining love. edit: punctuation

Ever read Leviticus 17 in its entirety? The context is talking about eating the flesh of sacrificial animals and animals that are being eaten for sustenance. Nowhere does it say that human life exists in the blood. Maybe it does exist there. Maybe it doesn't. I don't know. Either way, Leviticus 17:11 isn't saying what so many have concluded.

No need to worry, my heart is fine. I bid you a peaceful journey.

One thing I hope we can agree on is that we were all affected in ways that are far deeper than we may ever realize. Decades have passed. By now, it should seem as funny as the broken arm at age 8 that was the result of foolish horseplay. But, it doesn't. Somethings seem funny, yes. Too many things, though, left scars that will never disappear, no matter how much time passes.

Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment. I doubt you would have ever had this sort of discussion in The Way. In The Way it was always, "The Word says such and such. Take it or leave it." I'm not arguing with you personally. I'm not even arguing with your beliefs. What I'm calling into question is your methodology and conclusions. That's how discussions work. I offer evidence that supports my position, you offer evidence that supports your position. Sometimes one position outweighs the other. Sometimes we meet in the middle. Maybe I could have presented my position in a way that seems less mean. I don't know. Next time I'll try harder to listen more closely. Can we smoke a peace pipe or something now?

"I went in so I could come back to NY and run the Brooklyn/Queens area again and play music." That pretty much describes my FellowLaborer experience, as well. I left my musical aspiration behind and went into the program. We were supposed to spend 2 years honing our skills in a "first century church" environment, then, go back to our areas, better prepared to do what we had already been doing. That's how it was pitched to me by one Earl B^r!0n. It didn't unfold as promised, to say the least. You can't do those kind of things today. Not because people are any smarter or less gullible but, because there are so many informational resources available for those who want to get the facts straight before making life-altering decisions.

"You all are so hateful I see no need you banned me to many days because of my belief you are like the Way ministry that wanted worship with obey them give your money to them otherwise you cannot control my beliefs" I don't think I've been hateful, Roy. You asked if an apple can have an IQ. I tried to answer you in a logical way. My conclusion, after giving it some thought, is that an apple can not have an IQ. You insisted I must be wrong but offered no solid proof to refute what I had presented. I have no desire to ban you. I don't want you to worship or obey me or give me your money. Most of all, I would not want to control your beliefs. If you want to believe an apple can have an IQ, so be it. I'll continue to believe it can not. Life will go on.

GSC in agreement???? Now, THAT'S funny!!!

Maybe move it to the produce section.