waysider

Howdy, Doc I totally get what you are saying. Yeah, I saw stuff happen but I wondered if it was a one time thing or unique to a particular area or whatever. And, of course, there was no internet at the time, just a truck stop(Wayside Truck Stop) down the street that offered an excuse to take a walk and talk privately. When I left in about 1991, I just kinda slipped away unnoticed. I always felt guilty because I had let God down by leaving the "one true household". No Mas, Mi Amigo! Now I know I didn't leave the household, I dumped a CULT!. Post on, brother. Don't let the naysayers get your goat. waysider

Take Five

Hello, finally Kick off your shoes and set a spell! (Uhmmm --That means welcome aboard.)

This is a bit very bizarre so you have to bear with me 'til the end. I have posted this a couple of times before and it still even sounds wacky to me. Hope you don't get mad by my telling this. After I had been to a couple twig fellowships(They met spontaneously back then, so we're probably talking about 3 or 4 days.) something happened to me that I was extremely thankful for. I had heard SIT was good for giving thanks so I spoke in tongues for the first time right then and there. I was by myself. Then, the next twig fellowship, the leader asked for tongues and interpretation. I just jumped in. I didn't know you needed a special class. In fact, I hadn't even signed a green card at that point. Well, my twig leader, who had not been present at that time, got word of it. He took me aside and told me about "lift lists". He gave me a list of people and things to SIT for. At the top of the list was VPW. I didn't even know what he looked like so the twig leader gave me a Way Magazine with a picture of him behind a podium in a suit and tie. I think I prayed for a couple of other things first but then I tried to picture VPW and SIT for him. As I did, I saw him there in front of me, though I knew it wasn't real or a hallucination. He was wearing one of those neck scarves. He had a really evil grin on his face. He looked me point blank in the eye and gave me the finger. It really shook me. I never had anything like that ever happen to me before or after that time. I didn't even know there was such a thing as revelation and I had only been speaking in tongues for a couple days.(off and on) I told my twig leader who then convinced me it was "unrenewed mind", which he had to explain because the term was brand new to me. For a long, long time I struggled with that image because it had been so vivid. Every time I tried to do a lift list I could see that image, but only as a memory like a bad car crash you see on the highway that stays with you. I'm not really sure what to make of it. Except, I think it might be like the gallon of milk you buy when you grocery shop. You know it will be used at some point but you certainly aren't going to stand in the bodega and drink it on the spot. Maybe I saw it so I could share it on GSC, I don't really know. My apologies for taking this in such a non conventional direction.

Og Mandino, Zigg Ziggler, Charles "Tremendous" Jones, Dale Carnegie-----------------> I feel TREMENDOUS! "If I act excited, I'll be excited! "Fake it until you make it." Remember all that stuff and how we had to read and try to apply it so that our actions would generate the "proper" mind set? (Act first and your thinking will follow suit.) What's that you say? It's not the same as scripture? BINGO! That's because we weren't being trained as spokesmen and women for God, we were being molded as salesmen and women for PLAF (The Wonder Class) ----------------------------------------------------- Attention all PLAF (The Wonder Class) sales reps! The product has been recalled for serious defects Repeat The product has been recalled.

Now you're talking gibberish. Where did the judge say or even imply "actions do not affect belief, truth, teaching and many other things"? As a matter of fact, that statement is in direct contradiction to the Dealing With The Adversary class where it was taught that if we change our undesired actions, our thinking will follow suit. If I'm not mistaken, I think this was also covered in The Renewed Mind and Advanced Class.

I'm not saying you should or should not do this but if you do, you might want to also include Dr. Wierwille's death certificate that states his cause of death as being cancer. That's a huge deal in TWI doctrine. Wierwille taught, in his "advanced class', that cancer is devil possession. So there you have the ultimate dilemma, either we followed the teachings of a man who was possessed or he was wrong about the spirit thing. If he was wrong about that, what else was he wrong about?

I must have missed that part that I highlighted. <_<

We should all go back to using candles. At least they were safe. (Unless you used them too close to red drapes.)

Well, we supply the demand. Can't have supply without demand, or so it is said.

And speaking of open tunings----------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAQ0pyKW4S4...feature=related WARNING! Do not attempt this at home.

Hey Jonny! We have a kitchen thread, a guitar thread, a joke thread, why not a horse thread? You would probably have to start it, though, 'cause I don't know beans about oats.(or horses) Sigh! If only I had caught that Golden Pony I chased around the neighborhood when I was a kid. Sadly, he was far too quick for me and managed to always stay one city block ahead of me.

Good luck to you, Mike. I hope you catch your Golden Pony.

very cool!!! I wouldn't be too surprised if, after being away from that place for awhile, you find you have regained some of the use of your hands that you sacrificed for your family. And that's a good thing for a "picker" like you.

The Law Of Believing is a sham. There now, that wasn't so hard, was it?

Hello, Imagine I'll cut straight to the chase and state that I believe that what was taught in The Way about the Devil and devil spirits was a bunch of nonsense. Think about it logically in light of what was taught in the Advanced Class. Wierwille was an alcoholic. (devil spirit) He was a chronic sexual predator. (devil spirit) He was obsessed with material possessions, such as a fleet of classic cars and motorcycles as well as special guns and dogs (devil spirit) He twisted The Word to satisfy his own personal agenda. (devil spirit) He was addicted to nicotine and chain smoked like there was no tomorrow. (devil spirit) His cause of death was cancer. (devil spirit) he was so fearful someone might assassinate him, he surrounded himself with armed guards (devil spirit) and so on. Did you know he "borrowed" the definitions he used in the Advanced Class word-for-word? By his own "teachings", the man was literally riddled with devil spirits. How come nobody got revelation (discerning of spirits) about it? Now, I'm not talking about people who spent time with him up close and personal and had opportunity to see(5 senses) how he lived, I'm talking about people who met with him at The Rock Of Ages and Limb Meetings and that sort of thing. This doesn't speak highly of the value of the nine "manifestations". The whole thing was a crock of grasshopper spit. (IMHO) There were no "devil spirits" at work, just a self absorbed flim-flam man who didn't care who he had to hurt in order to get whatever he wanted.

What about youtube?

Hey Dove Quick question for you. Were you ever really in The Way? No, really, fess up. 'cause this kind independent thinking and acting on your own doesn't even resemble the stuff that went on in the "ministry" I was a part of. I think you would have been shown the door rather quickly in The Way that I was in. Or is that what happened? Did they give you the boot for non-compliance? Go ahead, you can tell me. I won't repeat it to another living soul. (It'll be our little "lockbox" kinda thing.)

Lord have mercy! What has this world come to? Not only do I find myself cracking open a Bible, here I go quoting it. I Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal. Yeah, I know somebody will be quick to say, "It says 'I become as' not 'what I say becomes as'." But look a little closer. The brass is no longer making music, it's "sounding". The cymbal isn't part of a musical context, it's merely "tinkling". And so it was with VP. He said a lot of words but, because of the darkness of his psyche, those words became "sounds" and "tinklings". Like the humble cymbal, he couldn't muster more than a "tinkle" due to his distorted sense of human value. HaHa! We thought he was speaking profound wisdom when in reality he was merely "tinkling". Hey, Mike, ever catch that Golden Pony? He sure is an elusive one, though, isn't he?

Hi, T-Bone I think we may have even taken "compartmentalization" to a new and higher level (for us, at least) when we were in The Way. Yes, we knew some of our thoughts seemed bizarre to the people in "The World" (use the "law" of believing as a prime example.) but, at the same time, we openly reinforced them with each other. So, we compartmentalized on an individual level and at the group level gave each other the nod of approval to do so. Then, of course, since we became experts, of sorts, at doing it, we naturally carried it into the way we thought about the organization. Call it group think, call it mind control, call it your Mama if it makes you happy. There was some BAAAAD chicken in that Wayburger sandwich.

Gosh, Robes, I don't really know what to say. I mean, if it weren't for the "blood is thicker than water" thing, would you still be interacting with this person? It's not my place to say, really but it's something to think about. You can't make someone get help if they don't want it or refuse to recognize the need. Not that I'm offering some sort of diagnosis (for which I most assuredly am not qualified) but she really owes it to herself and the ones her behavior is affecting to at least discuss the possibility of need for treatment with a professional. I definitely "get" what you are saying about keeping things status quo. (ie: If you've been thinking about changing jobs or getting a divorce, etc., put it all on the back-burner and find a way to work around it for at least a year if you can.) When I got divorced many years ago, I read an article that included a study that detailed the deleterious effects these sorts of traumas can exact on ones heart (the physical structure). It's pretty serious stuff. Sorry, I no longer remember the article or study well enough to give citation. As to the suicide, I can't speak first hand what it feels like to be in that frame of mind but I think it must be like a cumulative sort of condition, kinda like a self brainwashing sort of process. I think that is what we did in The Way. We self deluded ourselves bit by bit and piece by piece until, one day, we realized we were no longer the same person who sat excitedly in PFAL for the first time, waiting for the tape to start. And, some of the mental changes you experienced , you knew to keep hid, things like how you now believed you could change things in the physical world by merely thinking about them. Yeah, some of the stuff you just knew you should keep to yourself lest people think you had lost your mind. And, of course, you were certain you had not. You don't see yourself changing, but you do. I had a friend who was diagnosed schizophrenic and took heavy medication. Everything seemed to be going great for him. He got a job, a place to live, a reliable car, etc. I took him to twig because I thought it might help him. One of the believers told him they thought he was born of the wrong seed. You and I might have shrugged it off as wackiness but for him it was the straw that broke the camel's back, the cumulative effect. He killed himself.I've tried to make some sense of it over the years but I still don't have any answers. I will keep you in my prayers.

There really is no reasonable explanation. Not only did VPW violate these individuals, he deceived the rest of us as a group. He led us to believe he had some sort of special connection to God when, in reality, he was parroting propaganda from anti semitic and white supremacy groups. He lied about the origins of PLAF (The Wonder Class) in order to make us believe he had some special insight on the nuances of the scriptures, all to satisfy his own little lusts and perversions. In my opinion, people who continue to defend Wierwille after learning of his true nature and agenda, are caught in an ongoing process of victim-hood themselves.

"You want to know what killed that little boy? I'll tell you what killed that little boy, a 1935 Buick Roadmaster."

*Sigh* Wish I had listened.

Ever heard of the Neo Nazis? They extol the virtues of Der Fuhrer. But what difference should it make? Old Adolph left this planet over 60 years ago. Too bad he didn't take his toxic idealism with him. Likewise mit herr vierville.