waysider

excie, I agree we you this a great song. And, even though I know it's really Janis' song, I can never get past this amazing cover by Joan Baez: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRK7XY2yB0 When it came out on vinyl in the mid seventies (Diamonds and Rust album) I used to keep putting the needle back and listening to it time after time after time. I hope it speaks to you in the way it spoke to me. (That probably made no sense.) I guess in a way, I kinda wished that I was Jesse and somebody actually cared enough to want me to come home. I better stop there.

Polly wanna cracker!!

How about some Rory Gallagher? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_3Yerm9V7U

Happy Birthday, Howie You'll always be one of "the good guys" in my book.

Could be a spoonful of water Save you from the desert sand Spoonful of lead from my .45 Gonna save you from another man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TwEYuues6Y

I'm not disgruntled----or angry. I'm just deeply disappointed that something I believed in so fully turned out to be a sham. On the other hand, I feel a sense of relief in learning I wasn't turning my back on God when I left. What I turned my back on was just another run-of-the-mill cult. Not even a very good one, despite our claims that we were "The Best".

If, indeed, a dedicated thread should evolve from this, I suggest it would not be complete without the inclusion of Watered Garden's bone chilling testimony.

This is a perfect example of how, at times I would see various activities that I knew or suspected were wrong, but had no idea they were anything more than localized anomalies. That's where GSC comes into the picture. It enables you to see the scope of activities that happened on a ministry wide scale. It's a place where I often find myself having an "Aha!, So that's what that was about!" moment.

Hello, David Welcome to The Cafe. Have you been to the homepage yet? Strap on your headphones and make sure you're sitting down. First "cuppa Joe" is on me.

One for the squirrel

One day at a time, Raf. That's how I did it 25 years ago and broke a 2 pack a day habit. You're not quitting forever, you're only quitting for today. You can even break that down further into 1/2 or 1/4 days. The other side of the coin is if you "fall off the wagon", you have missed your goal for that day but not forever. Tomorrow is a whole new chance.

Don't beat yourself up too badly, Lucy. I, myself, didn't know much about the sordid details until I stumbled in here about two years ago. Believe it or not, I found this place while searching for a replacement for my PFAL book which had gone "missing in action". I was still lending out my collaterals and "witnessing" to people.( though I rarely sent anyone to a twig again after my rather unpleasant experiences in Fellow Laborers.)

I read the book. I had a hard time putting it down. Nuff said?

Lucy I know you weren't speaking to me but the time frame would have been about 1974 or 1975 to the best of my recollections.

Free Post!!!---Free Post!!!

I don't think she'll be getting an Oscar anytime soon. She obviously had been tipped off. (like with a "surprise" birthday party)

Maybe this is off topic, maybe not. People say the tone here (or whatever you want to call it) has changed. I've gone back to look at older threads and definitely concur. But there's more to the story. People have changed, the internet has changed, internet conversational styles have changed. I also visit a musicians site. I have only been going there for about 2 years but they have archives that go back to 1992. Holy Catz! If you look at some of the posts there from 1992 and then compare them to yesterday's posts it would astound you. Change is normal. You have to expect it. That's all I'm trying to say.

Here it is, lucy. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/radio/...ng-the-way.html http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/radio/...ng-the-way.html

2x post

Lucy First let me say how very sorry I am for what you have endured. It takes a lot of courage to come forth and offer first hand testimony to such a traumatic experience. There are probably some people in this world who would say to you, "Well, you should have told a teacher, a Sunday School teacher, a neighbor etc." But, I think, in your own mind, you know why that was not possible. For what it's worth, I never saw any of this activity either but it certainly confirms many suspicions I had through the years. Don't forget, we were never supposed to talk about things we suspected. We were supposed to "renew our minds". Predators have an uncanny ability to sense who will be an easy prey. They must have sensed that you would not. Have you spoken to anyone who is professionally trained to help with these things? Perhaps you might consider it. TWI I, TWI II, TWI III refers to the time frame you are referencing. TWI I, for example, refers to the years when VPW was at the helm. Mark----That comment was spoken to a poster here at VPW's memorial service

It's no secret. The man announced it in front of many people, with no stated expectation of secrecy. In fact, I believe it was his intent that it would be repeated amongst a select audience and thus lay the groundwork for practical doctrine. How in the world can you establish practical doctrine by keeping it a secret? So then what benefit can come of speaking out on the World Wide Web? Exposure. Plain and simple. People have a right to know they were deceived by a man that was not the man he pretended to be.

Hi, John I would like to address this issue of "brainwashing" I prefer to think of it as "thought replacement". That's not my term. It's a term I have seen in various essays, articles, etc. Most people who have never been in a cult tend to think of brainwashing as a process that turns its victims into zombie-like creatures. Maybe that's the result of the way Hollywood has portrayed it, I don't know. The Way actually encouraged people to subject themselves to brainwashing, though, of course, it was not stated so blatantly. In PFAL (Which is the "foundational" class of PFAL, it is taught (in session #7 )that the Devil was able to deceive Eve because she, first and foremost, allowed herself to consider what he(The Serpent) was saying. That's the first step of a five step process that led to her downfall.(according to PFAL) So, even as early as the seventh session of the foundational class, people are being conditioned to accept what leadership tells them and reject critical thinking. In addition, one of the main goals a "believer" was to strive for was "likemindedness" on God's word. We must all think the same things. Of course, it's really just their particular version of God's word. There is even a class (Yes, it cost money to take it) that teaches how to "renew" their minds. (ie; all think the same things) One of the most fundamental beliefs of TWI is that there is an immutable "law" that dictates we control our destinies by our thoughts. Now, there are bits and pieces of truths laced throughout this but the simple fact is, you can not control events in the physical world (good or bad) just by thinking about them. TWI, however, taught that you could. (Does this sound like "The Secret"?) In addition, TWI taught that it was the "one true household of God". While you were in its fold, you were in a spiritual fortress of sorts and protected from the craftiness of "The Adversary". The inverse, of course, was that if you left the group, you were leaving that "hedge of protection". Heck, Just leaving the group could render you a "GreaseSpot" in the road by Midnight. Worse than that, the consequences of leaving extended to your family. So, even if you were willing to take a chance personaly, did you really want to risk the lives of your loved ones? This stuff all becomes very real and possible in time. That's part of what I(IMO) consider part of the "brainwashing".